NBC come one come all

[protus]

lotta old school nuke talk going on.
so lets play it out. theres folks here that have been around for a bit, who know what and how to react to the issues of nuke fall out.
so lets role play get the collective grey matter juices flowing.
help folks think about what they may need. and what they can do if they dont have it...

your a new " prepper"
youve spent all your money on a carbine,,zombie ammo,a molle covered BOB,,and a bunch of mre's and of course a big knife. you are the perfect modern day "prepper" natgeo would be proud.
how ever in today's climate your not on your A game, nbc gear has never been a top item on your "list",,you have done a ton of research on it though after reading one second after.
As your looking at 2 for 1 drager mask and m10 mask on cheaper than dirt and trying to figure out if 20$ is fair......the lights go out......ipad wont work..your pdf files wont pull up on the lap top...and your cell is dead.
you run outside to see a large glow off to the north east.........another to the far south....

@@
tech info-
its early summer temps range lows 70's highs in the high 80's near 90. winds are from the west for now at 3-5 gust at 8-10.
city h20 seems to be running but very low pressure.
there is a "pond" 2 blocks away.
your area gets the standard rain storm every 5-7 days.



@@

ok..besides all your cool prepper stuff, you got your basic 3x2 on 80x100 lot in pretty suburbia land..its a soccer mom suv utopia of happiness.
in other words guys,,lets not just say you'll go into the garage and lift the lid to your issued vault tech shelter and start your eden kit.....
use what a "normal" house would have and "survive" ....

[protus]

(place holder for my ideas ....gotta charge my dosimeters,,,and put my vault boy shirt on...now wheres mt rad-a-way...)


1st off.
water- everything that can hold it ,,gets filled.
dunno if my sawyer super filter will work on nbc..or that monolithic i got from ctd.

tell family our plan as we fill.

i arm up.

go outside with paper pen and compass.
note wind direction..weather conditions.
run back inside grab flagging tape from my hunting fanny pack..hand a few strips in various trees to see wind direction and guesstimate speed.
i check truck/car- no go..
run back in.

start to cluster all gear in the most shielded room..this is a hall bath.
i check on family,,,check outside for info(wind,,,fall out,,fires,,,mobs etc).
i then start taking everything. bed mattresses and use them to shield up our hall way.

i take every trash bag,,towel,,shirt and jam and cover all windows,,seals and vents.

check family.

i grab some totes...i fill them with old clothes,,shoes,,socks..i place them in the garage...i run out..grab the trash cans dump them,,and sit them inside garage.
i take my lil girls kiddie pool and put it in the yard..(in case it rains)

i go through our cleaning supplies,,take inventory and place them with the totes of clothes.

the garage/laundry room is now our decon room.

the open jug of bleach i bring to the "safe" room.

i check wife kid,,pets..help lug water to the safe area.
tell wife unit to bring bedding,,clothes, fa kits all of it in there.
i go gather the food,can goods etc.and bring them into safe area.

one last thing. i grab my pipe wrench,,and open up the sewer clean outs leading to my house from the city lines...i dig a small ditch for now leading down hill to the street.

i gather up the family,,take inventory,,rest,,we pray.check our reality status..

i return to check my wind flags,,take notes..check area, notice neighbors just gawking at the glows in the sky..its getting dusk now,,and there are smaller glows around us..fires maybe?

we hunker down for the night..the shortwave isnt got much,,i dont speak german or spanish so its all gibberish..none of the fm stations work,,,,

wife and i split our last 3 cold beers from the fridge..we move all the meats to the deep freeze to stay cold till the am,,and we eat left overs till we about burst.....

i bust out a small travel board game set,, and under the glow of our "72 hour emergency" candles we play a game or to before i start 1st watch of the night...

[Rmplstlskn]

First thing... WATER! Fill everything we have that will hold water... Every bowl, every bucket, every jug, even the vases... Use the tub faucet so it fills too as you fill smaller vessels. Line it with plastic sheeting first so you don't have athletes foot fungus floating in your water and it won't leak out that drain lid with the crusty o-ring... My hope is that other people on the city water line will be too stupid and in a panic to think about getting water before the city elevated tanks run dry and the water stops flowing. I let the family members take care of that filling work, I have bigger fish to fry...

OK, wind from the west, detonations to the north-east and far south... I am good on fallout so far, but what of the detonations I can't see west of me, the ones filling the atmosphere with radioactive dust and debris? Surely an attacker won't just stop at two targets... ALL IN or don't play the game.. I must assume detonations are nationwide... I don't have working electronics, so maybe we will get "lucky" and it is just an upper-atmosphere EMP attack and not a full-blown, above-ground, thermo-nuclear detonation war from missiles with Red Stars from Russia and China... The glows to the north-east and south look upper-atmosphere, as I do not see any mushroom clouds, so I may survive this after all... I sure am glad I bought that "Nuclear War Survival Skills" book Barnes & Noble had on its discount shelves, as I don't know if my Kobo eReader in my "DIY from web site instructions" ammo box Faraday cage survived the EMP pulse...

Uncover any outside structure or equipment that may hold water, line it with plastic... I am sure glad I bought that cheap plastic sheeting and polyethylene tarps at Big Lots last summer! I put enough rocks in the bottom to hold the plastic in place. The first several rains may have nuclear dust trapped in it, as the sky attempts to clean itself, but it will settle and eventually loose harmful levels of radiation. Water is going to be my MOST IMPORTANT need the next few months. I need every last drop IN THE HOUSE I can get, and then these outside pools I am making will provide water if it is safe to go outside... I still don't know how bad it is. I don't know if I will be trapped inside for months, or if it will blow past me, leaving me with only some radioactive rain for awhile that would have to dissipate before coming back out after a rain. I just don't know, so I have to do anything I can, and FAST!!!

We need more food! But electronics are out, so I test the BOV Toyota Tundra... Dead! Crap... Maybe the Jiffy-Mart down on the corner did not close and will take cash. I may be a new prepper, but I learned after the last big storm that knocked out power for a week that CASH is KING and plastic is useless. My Kifaru BOB is packed to the gills, I need a backpack to go get food... I dig out from the bin in the garage some of those cheap China backpacks I used to use before I bought the uber-tactical Kifaru and grab my mountain-bike off the ceiling hooks. I run inside, check on the family filling containers with water, and tell my wife I am biking down the Jiffy-Mart to buy as much food as our $200 cash stash will buy. She smiles in agreement and gets back to filling. I slide on my kydex holster with my Springfield XD 9mm, grab the cash, and head out to the bike. I throw on the cheapy backpack that is actually pretty decently made and peddle of to the store. My sidearm is showing somewhat bent over on the bike, but I don't care right now, I need to get this done before the panic sets in... I pedal past neighbors who are outside in clumps of groups talking among themselves, pointing at the glows in the skies, some even trying to get their cell phones to work, as if holding them higher in the air will help... Idiots! I pedal past them and they give me only a cursory glance, probably thinking why am I riding a bike NOW... I think this will not get pretty soon.

[EX121]

First to consider is which way the fallout will travel? Are you down wind? Then you need to consider shielding? Without doing a search and trusting the memory I think you need 3 feet of earth to block gamma radiation, which is the most dangerous.
I can't remember how much for wood, other than it's a lot.
After shielding you need to hole-up for I believe a minimum of 21 days, until you can start very limited outside activity.
That's all I can remember now. Need to get the Survival Manual out for a memory refresher.

[RobertJ]

I will use my actual, greater Orlando area neighborhood.

First off a bit about my area. we have a little over 200 homes in our subdivision that's 22 years old. It is deed restricted like most of Florida's subdivision's. single family dwellings. The single family dwelling for 1/3 of subdivision has multiple families living in them and are non English speaking. About another third of the homes are short term lease, vacation rentals. The remaining homes are bank owned/forclosure's (11 homes) true single family dwellings or long term rentals.

On my street (20 homes) 7 are homeowner lived in. 2 are a Florida "vacation" home owned by same person from Chicago. they come in five times or so a year and stay several weeks (him and his extended Family). 3 are short term vacation rentals. 1 is bank owned. 5 are long term rentals with some low life Puertorican punks in one house where the county is called to several times a month for loud music/street racing (motorcycles) and a warrent served twice. two are owned by someone in Puerto Rico and very seldom show up. Its been two years or more since last seen.

First thing I'm doing is checking wind direction and looking for fallout. I'm always armed with my Pistol if I'M wearing clothes but will add some more magazines. If Chicago is not down on a visit I'm going to check his house for food and drain his hot water heater in some clean buckets I have.buckets will also be used to haul any food. I know the punks will break in there first off because they have been tress passed for coming on his property and using his pool/ hot tub/ patio for parties, upstanding youth they are. After collection of food & water I'm checking to see if BOV works and get it ready if it dose. Going to use my plastic sheeting and duct tape in smallest room in center of house to block windows and AC vents. Pile all my crap in attic over that room and on roof over that room I will pile sandbags over that area. My home is solid poured block. I will then put up my hurricane shutters. If Still no fallout, I will use my mobile battery and invertor set up and run its solar charger outside. to charge up fully and set up fans in safe room to apply negitive pressure.

keep an eye on everything and go over the OODA loop continually...

will add more later gotta go

[justanothergunnut]

If im sheltering in place then I need to distance myself from possible fallout. If my home is a two story construction I need to move all supplies to the lowest point away from the roof line that will collect fallout. If I have a basement this would be ideal, pick a corner with the most earth and house above it, farthest from the roof. IF there is time building up material directly over your basement area and on the exterior of the house may help. Bricks, pavers, stacked fire wood will help. Pay special attention to the below ground basement windows. There isnt much shielding material to scavenge in a modern home so making improvised shielding would be difficult. If I have a meter I need to get it set up and establish a base background level. This will be important for knowing exactly how bad it is later and will dictate further actions.

[rockriver]

great thread. thanks.
rumps and ex posts have already helped me...

there's a small pond and stream nearby... I wonder what happens to pond when radiation dust falls in... will it settle? will it pollute water?
will fish die? will fish be contaminated if alive? I j ust don't know..

got to fortify house. tractor has loader attached from ditch work at neighbor's house. I'm shouting instructions to family, but headed for tractor to pile dirt along walls of crawlspace.. it won't look pretty but, maybe the dirt will hold some that nuke crud out of crawl space and possibly up walls a little. oops scratch all that... re-read the "rules" no tractor! using a shovel..

getting all digging tools into house. crawl space is 3 to 4 feet high... if I can pile dirt on outside and then dig out interior, piling dirt against masonry walls maybe the crud won't seep through.

putting the Chinese pt10 generator at side of house. it will run off tractor pto in emergency. why didn't I rig transfer switch ahead of time? another edit necessary... oops..no tractor pto generator in original rule list!
bringing all lumber, plywood scraps, into house... wife is upset.. at debris.. but that's not important now.
bringing tools, nails, cordless tools inside.

cutting hole in floor of biggest closet. trap door of sorts... access to crawl space. having to hurry to frame out hole... it ain't pretty.

still trying to get family "in gear" need to move food, tools, water, to crawl space.
cots, sleeping bags, cloth and plastic, and tarps inside... I'm worried that we don't have any of those nuke protective suits...
then son comes running with some tools but also that box of chemical suits we bought from prior owners.. mighty dusty, but made to use when spraying chemicals on fruit trees... hey!! great find. better than nothing.
son is reminding me of weapons... we don't have much.. a couple of bb guns, etc.. sure get them in the crawl space. and those bows and arrows in the shed.

I've only gotten dirt piled along one end of house... how much time have I got? no idea. I think they got the big military base 1xx miles north of me.." Lord, bless those soldiers. help them to survive and retaliate with fearsome judgement. and oh yeah... some angelic help would help. we don't deserve it. but I'm asking anyway. rr"

whew.. I'm whipped already... should have gotten myself in better shape!

[protus]

just to have fun guys,,,not all electronics will be toast...so lets keep it in check ok ;p

you built a trash can farady cage like those guys on natgeo did. but you beefed yours up with a 20mm ammo can inside it as well....

inside you have a old grundig shortwave am/fm/wb radio with a retractable cord antenna - your ham geek buddy told you to get it.

a set of points for a car/truck/tractor (your choice of make)

2 meter ht

small solar recharge panel from harbor freight

6 aa batts
4 cr123's

analog multi meter.


38 snub nose and box of old lead wad cutters

[justanothergunnut]

First I want to know if the damage was only to devices plugged in at the time of detonation.. or even those not plugged in?? Second.. are the power lines in this area above ground or below?? ooh and the flashes from the detonation,, low on the horizon or high up like a exploding star.. LOOK PRETTY!!

[protus]

Well...
Let's just keep it as old "tech " made it through if nit running or powered at the time ..
Remember ....you're a prepper who was more concerned if 20$ was much for a pair of m10 s...not if your 2013 silverado on 38 s would make it over the curb...

As to the style of attack.....know German or Spanish...that's all I can get on com's.

[justanothergunnut]

reason why I ask is because it will help me determine if it was a traditional detonation just above surface or a high altitude EMP strike. If it is the first then I will shelter in place for up to two weeks if it is a straight EMP attack then im gettin out of dodge ASAP.. If most devices were damaged even those not plugged in then that leads me to believe high altitude EMP strike.. However the fact that there were two flashes leads more towards a conventional attack because multiple high altitude bursts may not be needed , hence the question about the flashes being on the horizon or high up.. A ground burst can create EMP but not nearly as much so if the electrical wires are above ground I know the attack had to of been fairly close as the emp would travel through the local electrical lines and probably not go several hundred miles... Gotta get a grip on the situation before you can make logical decisions... LOL

[Rmplstlskn]

I know Protus had to expect the technical questions... For I know he would have thought of these details before giving us a scenario without data points to make the right decision... LOL!

On a side note, no doubt stirred up in my head by the post I did before heading out to a friends house for Shabbat fellowship. We are heading home at 10pm, crossing over the Blue Ridge Mountains from the Shenandoah Valley, heading home. As I past the rest station on I-64 I scenario an EMP attack... The truck just dies, no power. My wife's iPad goes dark after a bright flicker. All the vehicles around me go dark and I can't see a thing in this thick, foggy darkness as I press hard on my no-longer-air-assisted brakes and try to get safely to the edge of the road. I get to the side and I ask myself, "OK, that must have been an EMP event.... What do I do now?"

I am about 35 miles from home, on a dark highway in the rural mountains. I have my GHB (a lite version of a BOB), but my wife and daughters GHB is in my wife's trunk, in her car, at HOME. Hmmm... Maybe I should have planned earlier and not posted on the survivalandpreparednessforum? I have two bottles of water in the truck, but no food, less some Mountain House pouches in my GHB. It is off and on rainy and the only shelter I have is my tarp in the GHB and a poly tarp in the "truck box" in the bed of the truck. I also have to take a dump... Great! My wife and daughter are scared... They're asking me what we are going to do...

OK, the rest stop is somewhere to the right, in the darkness. I need to go use the toilet. But maybe I should just use some napkins and use the side of the road, as it is dark anyways, no one will see or care... I get back in the truck, much lighter, and wife and daughter are looking at me for answers, my daughter has been crying... I see fear in my wifes eyes...

OK, we need to get HOME... My wife has nice clothes on and dress, low heel shoes. My daughter has sneakers on. I have leather CROCS on and my boots normally in the truck are at home as I used them recently and never put them back in. But I do have my 9mm and an extra mag in a fanny pouch, plus several flashlights. But do we start to walk home ALL NIGHT while it is cool, or do we sleep in the truck that night and start walking at dawn, then later in the heat of the day as well? Could my daughter walk all night? How long would it take to walk 35 miles? 2 days? Maybe 3 days? But only two bottles of water! OK, I have my water filter, and there is plenty of water around, especially after the rain today... Not much food though. No stores for 25 miles, at least.

WHAT AM I GOING TO DO?

This is what this thread made me ponder tonight... How UNPREPARED I really was and not thinking TODAY could be the day... It was just a short day trip to a friends house, right? I don't need to THINK about PREPS before I go on such a common day trip, right? It would have been one FAIL after another... I think we would have made it, but it would not have been fun or without PAIN and SUFFERING...

It really makes one think, and know how we have to be ON all the time...

Rmpl

[protus]

JGN...if i gave all the details youd have the perfect answer/plan you could think..
attack A..would gather x repose,,attack b-,,y response.lol

if it was "real" you'd have to try and assume,predict and react on your own...real time.


lets say the chance of fall out is very real .....if not from ground burst but from reactors going off line and melting down because of emp.

[protus]

I know Protus had to expect the technical questions

its all good. we did a huge barter town style thread on a different forum long ago..actually went several pages if not more iirc.. for every three real post trying to role play it there was one that would ask why,how,what if..if not can i have x,,y or z.

im like jgn,,i want the exacts so i can plan accordingly,,and lesson failure...but if i spilled the beans on the get go,,,we wouldnt have any fun..nor would folks who have zero idea on nuke preps learn what to think about/try/do.

my answer is not 100% what i would do..but what im stuck with in the confines of the scenario.
which..imho is 90% of those out there.
normal life-check
jobs- check
in/near town life- check
not sitting on 4 years of lts, full nbc gear for a family of 5 and a prep established "shelter".


read my 1st reaction...ever think why did protus open his sewer clean out....why did he place flagging tape in the trees..

for some its plain as day why i did it. just as some took notes on wind speeds,,time out side and or initial meter readings to form a baseline before "fall out" does arrive,

[rockriver]

no news and no quick way to get news... oh yeah... that little radio with the the various bands... now, what box did I put that in?
I rode bike up to town, to try to get info... along the way, others asked me... I didn't know, but folks were already wanting to know
what was going on... I just said... "I don't know... my car nor my truck will crank... has the fire dept or electric company been by? and ended with surely it will be ok and lights back on soon."
I found my dad's ole 38 as we dug for stuff... at least we have one real weapon.. I left it at home with my son. no one in town knows him.

our little village is small... in town, the clerk said a military convoy came through. and they were running hard... someone said that "Big City" had been bombed.
that's all I needed to hear, and I headed back for the house... I stopped and mentioned to a few of my friends that Big City had been bombed, then told them that they should barricade inside with family, move food, water, weapons inside then pile dirt, metal, plywood around central part that they could hang out in for a couple of weeks. stay inside, which is what we are going to do. radiation you know.. then back on the bike.

one guy asked "what will the ner do wells do?" my answer was "you already know. I gotta go. get ready."

at home... we moved tools that could be weapons into house also. pry bars, hammers. machetes, t-posts, rebar, shovels, pitch forks, bolt cutter, etc...

furniture was drug to area over the crawl space we were concentrating on and overturned. book shelves were dumped. shelving themselves went to the crawl space.
gloves... we'd just bought a couple of packs of work gloves... but blisters are already forming... ibuprofen already being used.
I sure wish I'd bought one of those yellow machines from jrh.. to read radiation or gauge it or ?? whatever they do..

neighbor was in uncle sams canoe club during Cuban missle crisis.. he came to check on us... saw what we were doing.. we stared at each other for a few minutes.. I was telling him what I've got... he's realizing the crawl space program as soon as he saw it... it didn't take long for both of us to realize he needed to come to our house... I loaned him our two garden utility trailers. he's got lumber and metal panels from a big contractor job he finished. he's got tools. one of my kids went with him.. I knew he was a big hunter and the last thing I asked about was could he bring his rifles.. he looked back and in shock told me that they were all at the gunsmiths!! but he did have an old 38 and some archery gear.
..
I kept checking my computers. the desk top wouldn't work... the lap top did come on, but no internet... I sure wanted to go to a couple of my favorite sites and see what I could learn... nothing.. the wi-fi machine wouldn't lite up at all. no power. why didn't I save some of that stuff on surv and prep?