Why the "group thing" is so important

[Lowdown3]

Why the "group thing" is so important

Quote from "On Killing"

from a Vietnam vet
"This is going to sound really strange, but there's a love relationship that is nurtured in combat because the man next to you- you're depending on him for the most important thing you have, your life, and if he lets you down you're either maimed or killed. If you make a mistake the same thing happens to him, so the bond of trust has to be extremely close, and I'd say this bond is stronger than almost anything, with the exception of parent and child. It's a hell of a lot stronger than man and wife- your life is in his hands, you trust that person with the most valuable thing you have."

Will it be much different with people you are depending on in the PAW?

So I got this question about why I seem so "crazy" about "this group thing" in relation to always stressing the importance of people understanding the COMMITMENT involvement, the need to be RELIABLE and TRUSTWORTHY to other group members and to in general take things seriously.

On the surface I think to myself- "you do realize we are talking about a SURVIVAL GROUP, not a church group, a man's club, a quilting group, etc. right? Yet too often it is approached as a casual affair, come when you want, don't come when it's not convenient. Put up some supplies here and there, but don't put yourself out. Train a little bit when YOU want to do it, when you don't then don't bother.

Too often those that take this tact with it are the ones that are either
1. found out during the selection process or
2. wash out or are sometimes gently (sometimes not so gently) washed out by the others. I would say there is a spot for a #3 that includes the people wherein their was a helluva good doubt about early on, but it was assumed that the candidate would come around, try harder, etc. However really this falls into #2 wherein they have to "washed out by the others."

Why would ANYONE assume this is a come as you are, do as you please, take it as seriously as you want to, half *** affair? Go back and re-read the quote above from the Vietnam vet. This is serious, even if YOU aren't taking it serious, others are. And if your not ready to man the fudge up and take it seriously, then either don't attempt it or humbly bow out. You'll be wasting others time if you don't, and guess what, even though they might smile and be pleasant, they WILL resent you for that.

Finally, it's important to realize that the whole purpose of a survival group is for people to GROUP UP if/when something happens. That also entails a COMMITMENT that you WILL perform, not maybe, not "well if things get THAT bad." AGAIN, see the quote above, people are depending on you in a group setting and honestly YOU WANT THAT. It's when you slack arse, prove yourself unreliable, not trustworthy, etc. that they will NOT depend on you, that's when the "washing machine" process starts up.

Lowdown3

[prc-104]

Vietnam Vet

You know it's odd.
I read this above ....."This is going to sound really strange, but there's a love relationship that is nurtured in combat because the man next to you- you're depending on him for the most important thing you have, your life, and if he lets you down you're either maimed or killed. ...... and I understand it.

I was a flyboy for more than just one year there. I flew Attack, Medevac, Scout, and transport what we called ash & trash.
All Huey's and later on when they got there, Cobra's.

What the quote above says is very correct. From our position, we went shoulder to shoulder so to speak with a lot of guys we didn't know and never saw but who would die if we didn't do our part.

I wasn't shoulder to shoulder with the guys on the ground but I was above them, hauling in stuff they needed, hauling them to dustoff when they needed it, yanking their butt out when it went bad and trying like heck not to fall on them when my bird went down.

The love and trust goes a lot further than just with the guy beside you.

/john

[Nativetribe]

Very similar to a marriage when COMMITMENT is absolutely essential. You're not always gonna love each other. Hell, sometimes you won't even like each other, but if you wanna make things work you must be committed.

Safety is in numbers. I believe there's a psychological aspect to having a group and being safe as well. We are social creatures, we need social interaction from others who we can be confident with.


"I'd rather live one day as a lion than one thousand years as a lamb. "

[dusso]

SO few will measure up, and it's SO dangerous to others when they dont, and they will be bringing their dependents with them. the FIRST thing ALL military orgnanizations do is get troops away from dependents. First, so that dependents won't be put at risk, but also to free up the troops from that worry/distraction. I think that you'd be nuts to trust anyone other than your kids/spouse.

Guys can't agree on what gun or load to use, and suddenly, they are going to agree on guard duty, disciplining of kids, allocation of resources, etc? LOL. not a chance. And EVERY prepper just ASSUMES that he's going to be the boss. What you are going to get is stabbed in the back or poisoned.

[BWnTX]

I suspect that 10 years of so called reality shows like Survivor will have tainted many folks. People have watched that crap and believe that you survive through manipulation and political alliances within the group. Folks with this mindset may not show themselves in the forming and practice stages of a group but will destroy the group in a for real situation.

I look at my job, I work in an office environment, and I think back 20 years. Today I see this destructive manipulation and political alliances in the office that I did not see 20 years ago. There has always been politics in the office dont get me wrong, but it often takes shape in different ways today.

My point is there are lot of FAKES out there and who spent their lifetime learning how to camouflage their real nature.

[dusso]

they may not be faking their desire to USE you, but they are faking 'competence/knowledge, for sure. :-) It takes many years of study and many 10's of thousands of $ spent to have much to offer in the shtf field. Most of what the military teaches you is no help. they PLAN on taking casulties. Just how many casulties are "acceptable" for you, amongst your loved ones?

other people will want to "let in" others, and it feeds upon itself. Some of those people will be diseased, or otherwise nothing but trouble.

[1Admin]

I suspect that 10 years of so called reality shows like Survivor will have tainted many folks. People have watched that crap and believe that you survive through manipulation and political alliances within the group. Folks with this mindset may not show themselves in the forming and practice stages of a group but will destroy the group in a for real situation.

I look at my job, I work in an office environment, and I think back 20 years. Today I see this destructive manipulation and political alliances in the office that I did not see 20 years ago. There has always been politics in the office dont get me wrong, but it often takes shape in different ways today.

My point is there are lot of FAKES out there and who spent their lifetime learning how to camouflage their real nature.

That happens. A lot of retards think their petty manipulation techniques like that will play in a real group. The reality is hard for them to deal with and sometimes they seem bewildered when they are tossed to the curb.

[1Admin]

Very similar to a marriage when COMMITMENT is absolutely essential. You're not always gonna love each other. Hell, sometimes you won't even like each other, but if you wanna make things work you must be committed.

Safety is in numbers. I believe there's a psychological aspect to having a group and being safe as well. We are social creatures, we need social interaction from others who we can be confident with.


"I'd rather live one day as a lion than one thousand years as a lamb. "

Unbelievably WELL SAID!!! +1,000,000 Don't be surprised if I steal your quote ;)

[1Admin]

SO few will measure up, and it's SO dangerous to others when they dont, and they will be bringing their dependents with them. the FIRST thing ALL military orgnanizations do is get troops away from dependents. First, so that dependents won't be put at risk, but also to free up the troops from that worry/distraction. I think that you'd be nuts to trust anyone other than your kids/spouse.

Guys can't agree on what gun or load to use, and suddenly, they are going to agree on guard duty, disciplining of kids, allocation of resources, etc? LOL. not a chance. And EVERY prepper just ASSUMES that he's going to be the boss. What you are going to get is stabbed in the back or poisoned.

Good point and let's go over each one by one-
Guys can't agree on what gun or load to use, and suddenly, they are going to agree on guard duty, disciplining of kids, allocation of resources, etc? LOL. not a chance.

This is part of the shaking out process and why you will be expected to do some "conforming" to group standards. That could/usually does include things like weapon choice (which makes logistical and training sense) but could also involve how you act/treat others in the group. This latter one is the "touchy" one cause EVERYONE thinks they act right but few (myself included) every really do. We ALL hurt people, don't live up to others expectations, etc. it's what we DO AFTER THAT, that defines us. If we are the typical irresponsible american't now a days, we will blame others, make excuses, pass it off on someone else, look for a distraction etc. What's wrong with man'ing the fudge up and just saying "man I'm sorry I screwed up!" Absolutely nothing, and a better show of character than passing the buck.

Also, you have to keep in mind we are NOT talking about an ad hoc thrown together at last minute group- aka "a kabobble". What's a kabobble, a kabobble is a frickin MESS! We are talking about working through a lot of these things NOW, not 2 weeks into the PAW. ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you can do, work out, etc. ahead of time needs to be done ahead of time.

[1Admin]

they may not be faking their desire to USE you, but they are faking 'competence/knowledge, for sure. :-) It takes many years of study and many 10's of thousands of $ spent to have much to offer in the shtf field. Most of what the military teaches you is no help. they PLAN on taking casulties. Just how many casulties are "acceptable" for you, amongst your loved ones?

other people will want to "let in" others, and it feeds upon itself. Some of those people will be diseased, or otherwise nothing but trouble.

Couldn't agree more ;)

[xdpatriot]

I've tried the group thing several times with different people. We've all left on good terms and still keep in touch, we're just not committed to helping each other 'at all costs' if there's ever a catastrophe. The first group was great and we all got along, all that good stuff. It was the time the different families were willing to put into it. My family lives this stuff and although we still take time away from this lifestyle for a weekend here or there, 90% of the time, we're living it. The only reason it's not 100% is because that's not healthy. JUST MY OPINION there, don't hack me up for it. Another time, we tried it out with someone else and they let the media consume them totally. It was an obsession at an unhealthy level. Also, this particular bunch wasn't putting enough food away to support the group size they are planning on. They had a 'sugar daddy' but even he wasn't stocking up enough food. You have one part group, weapons, paranoia, not enough food, you're gonna wind up with pirates. Again, my opinion and I ain't always right. Then we were gonna bring on my brother and his family. He enjoys talking about when TSHTF, but absolutely will not put in the time or investment it takes. I've begged him to put enough food away for his family. (4 kids, wife, her family and their kids) he refuses to do it. So that's not gonna work. If it was just me and my wife, we could start a group and afford to put away food for say, another couple or two so we could try and make it work. We have children of our own and I absolutely will not take food out of my kids mouths to feed someone who knew something was coming, but just thought it too inconvenient to prepare. It's a hard decision and one I don't like, but one my wife and I have come to over a lot of thought and prayer. We will help others when we can, but not at the expense of our family.

All of the above should raise questions to others. I'm sure some of you don't agree whole heartedly with much of what I've posted. I think that's a good point. We are defiantly gonna need to group up and the time may have already passed for it. It does take time to feel each other out and get to know one another. It's just reality that strangers aren't going to get along in a stressful situation. It's gonna take time, so start yesterday. Good luck.

[justanothergunnut]

" I'm sure some of you don't agree whole heartedly with much of what I've posted." actually XD there isnt anything there I don't agree with.

[SCinPNW]

" I'm sure some of you don't agree whole heartedly with much of what I've posted." actually XD there isnt anything there I don't agree with.

Ditto, I could not agree more XD!

I also like how you and your wife seem to be on the same page, I am also envious of that fact. My husband and I are on the same page up to a point. He agrees the World is messed up and that the numbers do not add up leading to some type of massive restart or crash to the world as we know it. And he agrees with being prepared and agrees with our immediate goal of selling the current house and getting into a place where we can live a more sustainable lifestyle with our children, anything too much beyond that he is not too sure about. He will ask me how much is enough, at what point do you call it good? Any my answer is "never".

All of what we have is because I have led us down the road and done the research, work and pushing to get us where we are. I keep telling him that the outcome is better when he is involved because I do not always see the things that he sees or have the knowledge that he has.

Okay turning off my rant here. I will not complaint, we are moving down the road in the right direction, just not as quickly as I would like.

Next on my agenda is more training and practice of skills, especially training for our daughter.

As for the group thing, I would like to group up with my family. My dad and brothers have knowledge on how to make, build, fix, or grow pretty much anything. Especially my dad, he grew up during the depression on a farm. His knowledge of how to do things is amazing!

SC

[ryder]

We have tried grouping up three times officially over the past few years. One family wanted to move in with us and be supported by us, another used our stash stuff as their personal day to day stuff and another suddenly decided there wasn't any need to prep? People can say anything and maintain an allusion of interest for awhile but their core values and self discipline eventually come out. Unfortunately it may take 90 days to see who they really are.
And yes we are still looking for others because survival depends on a group.

[protus]

xd- its hard to convert people per say or to get them to put in the effort.
ive helped friends pack food,,get gear etc. these guys ae tame when it comes to most of us, but they saw a need and went forward with it. do they have years worth . no. but they each bought filters,,and packed enough for a few months. after that it dropped to talk etc. folks get like that i know i do.
heck thats why it takes time. few years ago every waking moment was "prep" this or that.
from networking/searching for folks to packing food,,getting gear etc. then i eased off, didnt mean i stopped .

family is hard to get going, but can be your best asset. all of my family has weapons,,gardens etc. some talk like we do..some dont. lot of it is wife related. if your SO isnt on the same page i think it is twice as hard to get rolling.

i had that issue with mine well over 12 years ago....it was a battle for 1 extra can of beans. now its " hey honey..i canned 2 flats of beans while you were at work.." go figure.

it takes time. ryder hit on it as well. after so much time you can see were folks sit.however in todays world 3-6 months is an eternity for some..espesically newcomers.