Edward Snowden: Whistleblowing Patriot or TRAITOR to the USA?

[justanothergunnut]

thats a great little scenario there rock ,, only problem is EVERYBODY including the muslim zombie bikers have known since Bush was in office that we have been intercepting communications and data SELECTIVELY on suspected terrorists. So they already know we have the ability AND have had a program in place for YEARS that was intercepting their comms. The difference here that I don't think you see is that there is a huge difference between getting a blanketing warrant to intercept the communications of a couple hundred or thousands of users and MILLIONS of American citizens. Using the excuse that "well sure they violated the constitution but look at what they accomplished" is not a valid excuse. Imagine how many crimes the police could solve and even thwart if they didn't have to worry about that pesky Constitution.. Those damn 4th and 5th Amendments keep getting in the way of saving people from crime. What the gov is and has been doing is wrong and so is your support of it. NOW all that being said, IF Snowden is giving away SPECIFIC details and procedures to enemy states or groups of combatants that is entirely different. I will judge him on that offense. But to condemn him for bringing to light what is being done to EVERY American is to support what our out of control government is doing.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin,

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Wear it if it fits. So now you know. So what?
You know many things. You know many things in your state that are even more wrong than this topic of discussion and yet there you are suburbia, job, car, 2.5 kids, pets, online posting, not changing anything, still facing the same issues you did yesterday and will tomorrow and nothing will change as you enjoy where you live because of the weather or whatever feel good reason, trying to have your cake and eat it too.

He will disappear just like wikileaker and nothing will change and in a short time this will not be news. You say he is a hero, well now you know what he does supposedly so what are you doing with the info? Nothing I see no other "heros".

I don't like the data collection, i don't like snowmouth, i don't like .gov doings recently, i don't like brussel sprouts, i don't like the non answers received or not received from my politicians on the matter when contacted and i'm really starting to not like some when some don't know the details except what is read on the news without considering that one mouth will tell all he knows for attention and probably money after all the chinese didn't happen by accident

[Rmplstlskn]

As for what has changed...

As Lowdown posted, I too doubt many exist who will rise up in a Lexington moment, nor is the support of the people there, so that option is off the table for the very long foreseeable future... Nothing short of a "reset button" and a "French Revolution" could alter the path we are on now...

But I do see the various "privacy" companies talking about how business and interest in their products and technology is busting the seams. Companies like "Silent Circle", "Red Phone", data and email encryption software, etc... are getting massive hits and increased purchases. People ARE DOING SOMETHING, they are taking what is lost back in spite of the efforts of government... Or should I say, only those who give a rats arse are taking it back... Willing to LEARN how to regain their privacy and security in a massive data collection world...

Snowden showed many people that the people they once used to mock and ridicule as "tin foil hat" wearers were far more right than even most could have even imagined...

BTW, tin (aluminum) foil and reflective mylar will NOT block cell phone and other signals... Just say'in... All my tests to block failed miserably...

Rmpl

[Lowdown3]

Yet another thing we talked about in the Patriot movement that people said we were nuts about- "that's not real" etc.

Maybe now that main stream news is talking about it, people will believe it.

It takes a certain type to look at things currently happening, trends and patterns and try to figure where things will be along those lines in the next 10-20 years.

It's like I tell people in one of my talks I do at prep conferences- you are not always going to have ALL the information and their will be no more time for "research" but a decision will need to be made.

This is usually said in the context of survival planning, etc. as so many now a days want to "research" something for 3 years before a simple decision is made. They usually go around in big circles getting confused and no where because of the "research"- never ACTING or coming to a decision.

Bad times are going to call for hard decisions and for them to be made decisively. Unfortunately they may not always be right....

[justanothergunnut]

Wear it if it fits. So now you know. So what?
You know many things. You know many things in your state that are even more wrong than this topic of discussion and yet there you are suburbia, job, car, 2.5 kids, pets, online posting, not changing anything, still facing the same issues you did yesterday and will tomorrow and nothing will change as you enjoy where you live because of the weather or whatever feel good reason, trying to have your cake and eat it too.

He will disappear just like wikileaker and nothing will change and in a short time this will not be news. You say he is a hero, well now you know what he does supposedly so what are you doing with the info? Nothing I see no other "heros".

I don't like the data collection, i don't like snowmouth, i don't like .gov doings recently, i don't like brussel sprouts, i don't like the non answers received or not received from my politicians on the matter when contacted and i'm really starting to not like some when some don't know the details except what is read on the news without considering that one mouth will tell all he knows for attention and probably money after all the chinese didn't happen by accident

Interesting post Matt. I'll try to avoid the temptation to read too much into it...

[Grand58742]

Didn't find another thread on the NSA drama, so just figured I'd add this in here:

The National Rifle Association on Wednesday filed an amicus brief in federal court supporting an American Civil Liberties Union lawsuit challenging a government phone-tracking program that collects the telephone records of millions of Americans

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/05/nra-joins-aclu-spying-lawsuit-over-gun-registry-fears/#ixzz2e3YiwNBu

And when's the last time you ever saw the NRA and the ACLU agree on anything?

That right there should be eye opening.