Tornados

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Also included in my attire last night and carried on my person was my wallet, keys, cell phone charger, lighter, EDC flashlight as well as one of my Surefires, bandanna and multitool in addition to the headlamp hanging around the hat. Also, even with my little town being fairly quiet, I went ahead and open carried a pistol and spare magazine. While I doubt very seriously there would have been looting in my neck of the woods (since most of the folks out here will shoot first then call the cops when the storm is over) I didn't want to take that chance. So the Sig got placed on my side since I wasn't straying from home last night.
now you know why okie carries more stuff than batman on a regular day LOL

And for crying out loud...when an alert goes out for flooding or tornadoes, don't be like the others and go out just to gawk and look at the damage path. My guess is some, if not a lot, of the people that got caught in their vehicles during the flooding were probably out rubber necking and trying to see what was going on. If you are out driving into disaster areas just trying to get pictures for Tweety-bird or Myfaceplace and get caught by the aftermath of a storm, it puts the strain on first responders that are already stretched thin trying to get into disaster areas for rescue operations. The only people that should be out in the immediate aftermath of a disaster should be trained first responders or storm chasers until the area is cleared of rescue operations. So for crying out loud, don't become part of the problem and stay home until the areas are declared safe by first responders.

Alot of folks were heeding the advice of the tv land gurus and running for cover cause they were screaming, yes screaming, "this will be just like the last one and if you dont get below ground you will die" and so they hit the road only to find gridlock. As we know when sheep gridlock at the gate they panic and began rushing through which in this case they rushed through into high water and we have had at least one death. The second part of that is working thru the OODA Loop faster. We knew for 3 days this day was gonna be the worst and by 2pm you shoulda been where you was gonna be, bottom line, no excuses for okies. Use a sick day, just say ... it and get another job whatever it takes to stay alive.

Patriotic Sheepdog i'm glad they are alright, it was nuts with the multiple drop downs last night all over the place

[Matt In Oklahoma]

At about 10PM a guy from work drove up in the driveway. This guy drove clear across the city and to the boonies to get to me thinking after he lost contact with me the tree had fallin on the shelter and he needed to cut me out. Good dude
Anyway we discussed another co-worker who had allowed the first tornado to pass and last contact I had with him he stated "I'm going to fender aid, there are folks hurt" then the second one came and I couldn't get hold of him. So we loaded up and started out in a 4x4 chevy with med kits, chainsaws and other gear to rescue him if he was still alive and didn't get caught in the open. We didn't make it 2 miles before flooded roads stopped us. The reason they stopped us was because the downed trees were floating around and the downed telephone poles were submerged and we dang near broke an axle. It was dark, real dark, the rain was still pouring and it was unsafe with the lines laying in the water. We tried several routes.
This affirms my belief that help is coming but not right away and you need supplies, training and the ability to remain calm.

[Spock]

The OWA is taking a beating I'm glad you guys are pulling through it. Your experiances are motivating me into getting a FCC tech license.

[1Admin]

Lord bless you all.

[Grand58742]

The OWA is taking a beating I'm glad you guys are pulling through it. Your experiances are motivating me into getting a FCC tech license.

That's never a bad thing to have in these situations. I was wondering how well it might work or would the bands be so jammed up it would be impossible to get through to someone?

Paging QRPat...paging Mister QRPat. Technical expertise needed on aisle four.

[Grand58742]

Apparently the El Reno tornado was classified as an EF5 and is now the widest recorded tornado in history according to the weather channel.

http://www.weather.com/video/widest-tornado-in-history-37142

[EX121]

I'll take a stab at answering Grand's radio question.
First like you probably know most hand held & mobile radios (UHF & VHF) are line of sight, meaning they don't transmit through or around obstacles very well. This is why there are repeaters, so that you transmit to the repeater & it re-broadcasts the signal (sorry if I'm being to simple).
If the electric power is off then the repeaters will not work. Some repeaters have emergency backup power.
Around here our repeater antennas are attached to other owners towers or antenna masts. So if it's the same in your area they are more likely to be damaged in the tornado.
So you may be able to transmit to another radio on a simplex frequency if you are within line of sight with each other.
If you have the right license and radio to go HF then you are not limited to line of sight. However depending on the frequency band you may be to close for some HF transmissions.

[Grand58742]

I'll take a stab at answering Grand's radio question.
First like you probably know most hand held & mobile radios (UHF & VHF) are line of sight, meaning they don't transmit through or around obstacles very well. This is why there are repeaters, so that you transmit to the repeater & it re-broadcasts the signal (sorry if I'm being to simple).
If the electric power is off then the repeaters will not work. Some repeaters have emergency backup power.
Around here our repeater antennas are attached to other owners towers or antenna masts. So if it's the same in your area they are more likely to be damaged in the tornado.
So you may be able to transmit to another radio on a simplex frequency if you are within line of sight with each other.
If you have the right license and radio to go HF then you are not limited to line of sight. However depending on the frequency band you may be to close for some HF transmissions.

For the distances involved with the OWA crew, the ham would be one of the ways to go. Maybe even CB, but I'm reasonably certain the distances involved would preclude this from a reliable means of communication except for a few.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

For the distances involved with the OWA crew, the ham would be one of the ways to go. Maybe even CB, but I'm reasonably certain the distances involved would preclude this from a reliable means of communication except for a few.

The CB is not that good around here, too many interruptions and high power super truckers as well as some automated high power deal. Its good for smaller convoys etc but thats about it

[Grand58742]

Was thinking between you, Team Karen and maybe Team Hitandmiss but that would about be it. Pretty positive Sharpshooter is out of range and I know for a fact Cimmeron and I are.

[qrprat77]

Working with And Around Repeaters

I'll take a stab at answering Grand's radio question. First like you probably know most hand held & mobile radios (UHF & VHF) are line of sight, meaning they don't transmit through or around obstacles very well. This is why there are repeaters, so that you transmit to the repeater & it re-broadcasts the signal (sorry if I'm being to simple).If the electric power is off then the repeaters will not work. Some repeaters have emergency backup power. Around here our repeater antennas are attached to other owners towers or antenna masts. So if it's the same in your area they are more likely to be damaged in the tornado.So you may be able to transmit to another radio on a simplex frequency if you are within line of sight with each other.If you have the right license and radio to go HF then you are not limited to line of sight. However depending on the frequency band you may be to close for some HF transmissions.

Ok, I will attempt to build on what EX121 said.

EX121 explains the repeater concept well enough, a repeater hears one frequency and transmits another.

Here's a little bit of deeper knowledge that will help you understand how to leverage VHF and UHF frequencies when repeaters go down. When you look at your radio, and you are using a repeater, you will notice a + or a - near your frequency. This indicates that you are transmitting on a frequency different than your listening frequency. Remember that's what repeaters do, listen on one frequency and transmit on another. If you are on the VHF 2 meter ham band, 144-148 MHz, you will have a standard transmit offset frequency of + or - 600 KHz. If I am using the UHF 440 Mhz band, the standard repeater offset is always + 5 MHz. These offsets are not regulated by the FCC, but they are set by the councils that coordinate and issue frequencies to clubs or people who want to operate a repeater, and their actions are sanctioned by the FCC. Examples: I typically use the K4LKL 2m repeater. The repeater frequency is 146.685 MHz with a - (negative) offset. That means when I transmit, I transmit on 146.085 MHz. Here's one of the first things you should learn after getting your license and learning to use repeaters: Learn how to listen to the repeater input (the frequency you actually use to transmit) to see if a station is close enough to you to skip talking with them on a repeater at all. Usually there is some sort of a "reverse" function on your radio to allow you to check.

When a repeater goes down, it can be helpful to know how to turn the offset of your radio off, so you transmit on the frequency where everybody is already listening to tell them, "Hey the repeater is down, use frequency XYZ to coordinate activity, please use this frequency simplex to relay this message".

When using VHF/UHF you can extend your range by using cross band repeaters. They don't have to be coordinated, but most repeater councils post a list of suggested frequencies to pair up. That's a subject for another post though, because setting that up will require some technical expertise, and the details will differ amoung radio models.

If your parties do not share communication via a repeater, then you will have to use HF frequencies. Typically, you want a low antenna (hams call them 'cloudwarmers' because most of the signal is radiated up, toward the sky overhead, instead of out toward the horizon) and low frequencies, no higher than the 40M band (7-7.3MHz) so you can use NVIS communications. I cover NVIS comms very broadly in this post: https://www.survivalandpreparednessf...ll=1#post11944

Glossary and Addendum

KHz = Kilohertz

MHz = Megahertz

full duplex = receiving on one frequency and talking on another, all at the same time, just like a telephone.

semi-duplex = receiving on one frequency, and talking on another, but only one person can talk at a time.

simplex = receiving and transmitting on one frequency, only one person talks at a time.

NVIS = Near Vertical Incident Skywave; a way of communicating using HF radio waves to bounce in close to your facility to "Fill in the gaps" created by radio "skip" Okie Repeater Society, useful for finding out what repeaters are available in OK: http://www.oklahomarepeatersociety.org/

[Grand58742]

I think I got everything. So the next question would be:

How reliable are HF radios during a storm? Especially in local conditions? Storms typically hit Matt, HitandMiss and Karen about 15 minutes prior to Sharpshooter and about 30-45 minutes before me if I get hit at all. Or Sharpshooter gets hit about 20 minutes before me and it misses the rest. Cimmeron sometimes gets hit when we don't and sometimes gets the storms after we are done with them. Goofy Okie weather. Anyway.

With HF comms, how likely are they to be scrambled during a storm with moderate to high electrical interference from lightning and charged cloud bases? Likely to be able to be used at all? Or is that even a even a problem?

Just wondering what the best local (within 50 miles or so) setup would be for me to be able to scream like a little girl for Matt to come rescue me. And without breaking the bank.

[qrprat77]

I think I got everything. So the next question would be:How reliable are HF radios during a storm? Especially in local conditions? Storms typically hit Matt, HitandMiss and Karen about 15 minutes prior to Sharpshooter and about 30-45 minutes before me if I get hit at all. Or Sharpshooter gets hit about 20 minutes before me and it misses the rest. Cimmeron sometimes gets hit when we don't and sometimes gets the storms after we are done with them. Goofy Okie weather. Anyway.

The problem with storms is not the interference they may or may not cause the radio signal, it's in the zap! that may result if you wind up bringing the lightening into your area

With HF comms, how likely are they to be scrambled during a storm with moderate to high electrical interference from lightning and charged cloud bases? Likely to be able to be used at all? Or is that even a even a problem?

Once the danger of lightening striking your place is gone, the only threat posed is in the static crashing making the communication unintelligible. You can work around this by upping your power, transmitting between the pops, or trying to switch to 15m (21.000-21.450 MHz). 15m is too high for reliable NVIS communication, but you may get some groundwave coverage, 50 miles is pushing the limits, but if you practice before hand, you may surprise yourself, especially in the summer time. Short E-skip on 15 has been reported recently in Alabama and Mississippi (sub 200 mile distances) so it is possible. The reason I say 15m is because every lightening strike is an EMP, and that EMP has a quiet range (as in no radiation emitted) in the 21MHz range. It is a VERY quiet band during a thunderstorm. Remember COMSEC though, 15m is a Distance band stations from around the world will hear you crying like a baby for The Okie to come save you.

Just wondering what the best local (within 50 miles or so) setup would be for me to be able to scream like a little girl for Matt to come rescue me. And without breaking the bank.

Within 50 miles is doable for a repeater, but is iffy for simplex comms at VHF/UHF ranges. things to try: if you notice radio stations tuning in from a far distance away (especially in a direction toward fellow OWA folks) try VHF, either 6m or 2m. Especially if you can do Sideband voice (not the usual FM). You may be able to take advantage of a duct opening during the storm, and they can extend your comm ranges significantly.

Other than that HF NVIS will be your best bet, and probably cheapest option, because it has the highest probablility of success. There is a little more initial outlay, plan on spending about $500 per station to get something real basic set up, but in the end, you will have something dead simple bullet proof that will work every time it is safe to use a radio.

As an aside, I would like to note that if you are willing to take the time, and make the investment, it is possible to lightening proof your com setup. It takes money, and a fanatical attention to detail when it comes to making sure everything is set up just right. Commercial Radio stations are struck while on the air every day, and they don't stop transmitting. For the average Joe Prepper, it is better to play it safe during an electrical storm, ride it out, keep the antennas grounded, and the radios protected until after the fact.

[qrprat77]

I think the issue of intereference due to too many stations using the radios at one time came up. fortunately, hams have options, so if the frequency or repeater you want to use is being used by somebody else, just change frequencies.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Well now the ground water table has risen so high from the heavy rains after 3 years of drought that the storm shelter is flooding from the bottom thru the small stress cracks caused by the previous earthquakes and the drought stricken separating clay soil LOL the good news I wont run out of decent drinking water as my new-found underground tank has about 300 gallons in it now
survive an event my behind, I'm just trying to make it thru spring
gotta love Oklahoma