Is Everyone Here OK With This?

[Benn Gleck]

I haven't seen in mentioned but I might have missed it in another thread.

Does it bother anyone else that the government can tell a whole town not leave your house and then conduct house to house searches?

It really bothers me.

Then add to it all the people are happy about it. The BIG government came in and protected them. Except for the fact that after the sheep were let out a mere citizen found the kid.

Here's a couple of videos of the seach. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-GUNPOINT.html

Maybe its me, I get angry when the county calls a snow emergency and tells me I can't be on the roads. I make it a point to go out then.

I suppose I'll hear a rant about tinfoil from the guys in Oklahoma but this is how I feel.

[Grand58742]

I haven't seen in mentioned but I might have missed it in another thread.

Does it bother anyone else that the government can tell a whole town not leave your house and then conduct house to house searches?

It really bothers me.

Then add to it all the people are happy about it. The BIG government came in and protected them. Except for the fact that after the sheep were let out a mere citizen found the kid.

Here's a couple of videos of the seach. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-GUNPOINT.html

Maybe its me, I get angry when the county calls a snow emergency and tells me I can't be on the roads. I make it a point to go out then.

I suppose I'll hear a rant about tinfoil from the guys in Oklahoma but this is how I feel.

You might be wrong about that tin foil rant...

But sometimes, like your snowstorm, people are told not to be out for their own safety. Take when I was in Colorado for example during the big blizzard of 1997. A couple of people died during that storm. Just had to go to the store and stock up...in shorts and t-shirts mind you. Got stuck and froze to death because they were stupid.

Now I'm assuming you are better prepared and smarter than those folks and wouldn't be out running around . But counties and States tend to make those sorts of decisions based on the people that aren't that smart or prepared. For their safety and frankly the safety of the people that have to go out and rescue them.

As for Boston, I won't say you are wrong. I personally don't think it was right what they did. I can understand why the call was made, but can't say I agree with it.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Down here in free Merica the county doesn't tell us not to go on the roads and in fact usually the roads are cleared in rural areas by citizens more than .gov maybe thats why we see things different

You do what you want but if there are 2 crazies running round throwin bombs and shootin everything that moves as well as some excited possibly inexperienced scared outta their wits or mad as hell LEOs doing the same well can't imagine why anyone would want ya to stay indoors. Little Sally n Johnny should be running round the streets being tricycle motors right in the line of a clear shot on a terrorist! By all means let the little ole lady driving a whoppin 25mph to the store get creamed by 2 losers with nothing to lose as they run from cops at over 100mph. Whats wrong with that!?!

So as someone tasked as a LEO to take out said badguys what would you do GB? I don't need to rant too long because its easy enough. All you gotta do is come up with a better way to keep the public safe and I can almost assuredly tell you it will be implemented ASAP.

It bothers me too losing our rights but watching my family get carjacked, beat up or gunned down because they are white and American bothers me more and I will give a day or 2 of freedom for safety and sense. They didn't kill the ones they carjacked because they weren't American. If that happened here and I didn't get out of town in time you bet I'd bugin and protect my family with round the clock watches setup, done it before. Don't need no .gov to tell me cause I have sense. But just like it was said can't wait to get out and buck them thorities and show them who's the boss so out the orders go. Dang shame you gotta fight 2 fronts when bad stuff happens

I fought my friends n neighbors hard after 9-11 because they were demanding we (National Guard at the time) set up roadblocks. They don't know what it is to live without freedom. I do, been there done that got the t-shirt and wore it out while in the Army.

IMO it's a shame that .gov has to say anything like that at all, it should bother you

[1Admin]

Their was/is definitely a lot of visual imaging and "programming" going on with the whole deal.

Yes most definitely pisses me off that whole areas are searched. They are only doing what they know from the Sandbox IMO. Not saying it's right, it most definitely is NOT right, but it's all they know.

Now let's look at this in REVERSE- every time the gubmint does something like that, it pisses off more people. Pissed off people tend to comply less, cause more problems, perhaps even start looking for answers to nagging questions and "feelings" about certain things.

I won't go into this too much, but suffice to say, this sort of thing SHOULD work against the gubmint.

It's like shaking the fence IMO..... Do it that much and folks will fall on one side of the fence or the other....

Think about it.

[Rmplstlskn]

This is a hard one... I wonder what I would do as a LEO Commander... You just got in a bloody gun fight with two terrorists who threw out bombs during the chase and may have an explosive vest on. Then one guy, armed & dangerous, escapes in a vehicle running over his brother and is at large in a populated area. As a LEO, I would be very scared about bumping into this guy too close, in a trap. He could also be holed up in a house, using the residents as a shield. He has nothing to lose, after the first murder, the rest are free...

I think I would do something similar, but I would try to be more respectful to the residents and not treat them like a possible threat, and their evacuation might be the safest option in such unknowns...

Like I said, tough call. No matter which way you go, someone will be angry and have a beef with it...

Rmpl

[miked2345]

I don't have a problem with the police saying "Hey, we have a situation here, please stay indoors until we give the ALL-CLEAR...."

What I found VERY disturbing was the police going door-to-door, pulling out families at gun point, without warrants. They knew what the 2nd bomber looked like, (The 1st bomber was dead at this point.) so I'm not sure if pointing a (real) assault rifle at a middle-aged guy holding his baby girl in his arms is really needed.

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

I have a problem with the "Officials" shutting down a whole city and surrounding towns... This was for 1 lone guy and media was fine with it. They did not say "martial law" but what do you call it when you have a military presence telling you what you can and can not do?

But wait that was not the military that was LEO!...

I say any Large group with armored trooper haulers, wearing plate, had air support and running around with full on true Assault Weapons thats Military...

[Pete]

Their was/is definitely a lot of visual imaging and "programming" going on with the whole deal.

Yes most definitely pisses me off that whole areas are searched. They are only doing what they know from the Sandbox IMO. Not saying it's right, it most definitely is NOT right, but it's all they know.

Now let's look at this in REVERSE- every time the gubmint does something like that, it pisses off more people. Pissed off people tend to comply less, cause more problems, perhaps even start looking for answers to nagging questions and "feelings" about certain things.

I won't go into this too much, but suffice to say, this sort of thing SHOULD work against the gubmint.

It's like shaking the fence IMO..... Do it that much and folks will fall on one side of the fence or the other....

Think about it.

I agree. Personally, I think this was a test. Not saying the bombing was a test (although it could have been I suppose), but how everyone willingly handed over their rights in the face of fear. Everybody (well, maybe not everybody) is so easily whipped up into a frenzy of fear that they'll lay down and take it. We all saw it on TV! People just sat back and let their 4th amendment get yanked from them...and allowed it to happen. The powers that be don't need to take our liberties away with force...we (meaning the American society as a whole) are giving them up willingly. And the general populace doesn't even realize it. We're in sad shape and what we saw, in my opinion, is a snap shot into what will become.

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

Iwe (meaning the American society as a whole) are giving them up willingly

No Matter the reasons Giving up your Rights and Liberties is NEVER the correct answer. Take Tin Foil Hats aside lets talk history... Please go look up what happened don't take my word for it and please don't say oh that can never happen here or oh your just being paranoid... The Similarities should speak for themselves but between the Normalcy Bias, Group Think / Mob Mentality, our current paradigm and other Sociology and Psychology issues we can not see the similarities.

The Germans were told that because of Terrorism (The Reichstag Fire) they basically had no freedom (The Reichstag Fire Decree). And they willing gave up their rights!
The Germans were told Gun Registration would help track guns and prevent Crime. They willingly registered their weapons because it was their duty as good Germans.
The Germans were told that criminals were still getting guns and the guns should be removed from society. Again the Germans were good citizens and willingly turned them in.
The Germans were told that Poland attacked them and thats why they had to invade Poland (Gleiwitz incident or Operation Himmler). And they willing went to war!
The Germans were told that the reason for their "pain and suffering" was the Jews. And many Germans Followed the Heard and Willingly allowed unspeakable acts to them.

The play book is the same... Just replace some of the Names/locations/dates and we can see they are playing the same plays again!

The Americans were told that because of Terrorism (9/11 and Marathon Bombing) they basically had no freedom (Patriot Act / NDAA 2012 / What else is coming). And they willing gave up their rights!
The Americans were told Gun Registration would help track guns and prevent Crime and murder. They willingly registered (every gun sold through a licensed dealer gets a back ground check leaving paper records with the dealer that they must keep and an electronic ping in a national database which could be queried later) their weapons because it was their duty as good Americans. Also all Full Auto's and Suppressed Weapons are out right registered.
The Americans were told that Iraq had WMDs and they willing went to war!
The Americans were told that "Terrorist" are the reason for our "pain and suffering" and they willingly allow the Terrorist to be tortured.

They are still attempting the Gun Collection Thing!

[Matt In Oklahoma]

So help them be a better LEO then and tell me how to get it done. Still haven't heard any answers to what would you do? Asked the author the first time, still waiting to hear and no one else except one broached the subject and kinda said they didn't know what they would do.

There was 2 badguys here, no more.

Also if they tell you not to go out and you get hurt do you expect the same people to help you? Thereby putting those people coming to help you in danger needlessly so YOU can do what YOU want? I mean just going out in a snowstorm just to prove a point and then expecting someone to show when you wreck putting them in needless danger, really? Also goes against the grain of "survival" putting yourself in needless danger just to prove a point, especially when no one notices. Same for the situation in Boston.
Kinda the L word

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

"Still haven't heard any answers to what would you do?"

You have 30-40 murders a month in Chicago... Do you close down the city every time you have a suspect considered "armed and dangerous"? When have we ever closed a city for a single SUSPECT... A TEENAGER at that, and again is only a suspect. We don't know all the real details of this and I doubt we ever will, but giving up our rights is NOT part of the Solution.

They should have heavily increased patrols and kept his picture all over the media. Then let the citizens decide for themselves if they wanted to go out or not.

[jimmycthemd]

So help them be a better LEO then and tell me how to get it done. Still haven't heard any answers to what would you do? Asked the author the first time, still waiting to hear and no one else except one broached the subject and kinda said they didn't know what they would do.

There was 2 badguys here, no more.

Also if they tell you not to go out and you get hurt do you expect the same people to help you? Thereby putting those people coming to help you in danger needlessly so YOU can do what YOU want? I mean just going out in a snowstorm just to prove a point and then expecting someone to show when you wreck putting them in needless danger, really? Also goes against the grain of "survival" putting yourself in needless danger just to prove a point, especially when no one notices. Same for the situation in Boston.
Kinda the L word

I normally don't jump in on these threads but I've got to agree with Matt on this one. The basic issue I have is the attitude that I've seen both in the public arena and in some of the prepper community as well. In instances like this (the Boston bombings), we want the officials to act quickly and resolve the issue yesterday....all without ANY inconvenience to us. We want it all and don't want to pony up and pay for it in either tax money (funding for the organizations that protect us) or in actions (following simple directions). I DO have issues with the present administration cutting funding and not following through in tracking people like this. I DO NOT have issues with how 99% of the responders handled the manhunt. Yes, there might have been some overzealous folks in the mix but I can't say I'd have even 1% of the physical OR mental/emotional preparedness to keep it together during an adrenaline-charged situation like this. If there were mistakes made, they're human and hopefully learn from them.

Note that I'm not a fan of the government (the political end of it). I think that both the Dems and Reps have lost their way and don't have a lot of hope that they'll find their way back to the real American ideals. I DO have a lot of respect for ALL first responders, whatever their role...LEO (federal or local), firefighters, EMT and the list goes on, that run TOWARDS the emergency and render whatever help/aid they can.

And, oh by the way, if people feel that strongly about the way things have been handled, be and American and get involved in the solution instead of being part of the 'entitled' and just Monday-morning quarterbacking.


Off my soapbox...end of rant.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

"Still haven't heard any answers to what would you do?"
You have 30-40 murders a month in Chicago... Do you close down the city every time you have a suspect considered "armed and dangerous"? When have we ever closed a city for a single SUSPECT... A TEENAGER at that, and again is only a suspect. We don't know all the real details of this and I doubt we ever will, but giving up our rights is NOT part of the Solution.
They should have heavily increased patrols and kept his picture all over the media. Then let the citizens decide for themselves if they wanted to go out or not.

We are not talking about chicago, a criminal enterprise we are talking about Boston and the terrorist attack. Tell me how you would handle it instead of trying to change the subject to something else. Are you seriously telling me the citizens didn't do what they wanted to? You really believe they wanted to take their kids to school (in danger) and then go into an office (in danger) and drive down the street(in danger) and be unprotected and in the middle of that mess LOL. ya ok

After it was over, what happened within minutes? It went back to normal and the PEOPLE were on the street cheering and thanking the responders. Now had it not I would be screaming louder than you and not from behind the keyboard either.

I don't want to see this loss of rights by any means but you don't get something for nothing which is what some of you want. Aint gonna happen and that is why none of you can come up with a better solution.

[1Admin]

This could be a good discussion. Let's keep it CIVIL and the thread will stay open.

[xdpatriot]

How about obtaining search warrants? Once that was done, then go search.