DHS and MRAPs

[Grand58742]

Just before it comes up...

Supposedly DHS has ordered some 2700 MRAP vehicles. For those unfamiliar with the MRAP, lookie here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAP

However, the actual numbers used by DHS cannot be confirmed. If your "official" news source references a blog that references another blog that states things like "hollow point organ damaging bullets, and wall piercing mag rounds" (as any round fired from a weapon that hits center mass will be organ damaging and most rounds are wall piercing lol), there isn't really cause for concern. Or if your article references a Russian news article that also has no further information...same applies. Anyway, internet echoes of the same obscure piece based on circumstance, guesswork and hyping things that are not in my opinion.

The 2700 number actually comes from a DoD program in which 2717 vehicles were/are upgraded after being brought back from overseas. So the number 2700 is factual, just not in reference to what DHS supposedly ordered through back channels via the Pentagon, which again, has not/probably won't be confirmed and is/probably is not true. Also, the supposed "upgrades" for use on American streets has NEVER been referenced on anything except bloggers guessing that's the reasons why. Navistar, the contractor, talks about suspension upgrades, new engines and alternators (from the Navistar press release http://media.navistar.com/index.php?s=43&item=546 ) . And there really isn't much different from operating on American streets versus Iraqi streets. So this was simply made up. Not the upgrades, but the reasons why are simply false and someone used that "fact" to inflame a situation into something it isn't.

Having said that, DHS does have some MRAPs in stock as seen here:

So there are at least a few "out there." Not sure of the exact numbers but they do have them. Now they are good for high risk response vehicles, although tend to be a lot more expensive than others...and if they are getting them from the DoD stocks being refurbished after coming back from overseas that could actually save a buck or two. Imagine that, the .gov saving money by buying used instead of new? Crazy talk right there. Anyway...

Not entirely sure why the DHS proper has their own SRT when many of the under departments have their own tactical teams (such as ICE) or rely on other agencies like the FBI for that sort of thing. So there is that question. Could be a Departmental fight between the DHS and DOJ or a "my Richard is larger than yours cause we've got the MRAP and you don't" so who knows. And total numbers of said armored vehicles in DHS service. Another question unanswered, but likely under a hundred so not as threatening as the original blogs reported. But still, seems to be a lot of questions lately regarding DHS and whatnot. Drones and surveillance, large ammo purchases (which I'm still not convinced yet is a "conspiracy), armored vehicles, checkpoints...a lot of unanswered questions.

Just posting this out there as info and not to pick a fight. The 2700 number cannot be confirmed via anything except the original Pentagon contract to Navistar for upgrading existing fleets and nothing about them being transferred to DHS or "upgraded" to be used on American roadways (as stated previously, no difference in roadway construction in downtown Baghdad as opposed to Main Street USA so to suggest the "upgrade" for American roads is really dumb) in a police state environment. But like other Departments, DoD tends to keep their new toys around and probably wouldn't be "giving" away 2700 vehicles they bought in the past five years (as the MRAP program started in 2007) and just had refurbished in 2012. Things like this would have been noticed by more reputable sources. Conspiracy to hide the truth? Probably not. With sequestration in effect in the DoD, I can flat guarantee you nobody is going to be giving away anything right now especially $1.5 Billion (adding the original cost @ $500K per unit plus the $21 Million in upgrade contract) worth of goods that can/will be used again in whichever war we get involved in next.

Yeah, I know. It's weird when Grand posts your tin foil news for you lol.

[jimmycthemd]

Grand...I didn't know about this and would like to thank you for putting it into perspective before I stumble across it. Being forearmed with rational thinking and facts is always appreciated. I will admit though, having read some of your previous posts, the title piqued my interest...thought maybe you'd donned your own tinfoil LOL

[WiseOwl]

Your kidding right?
I saw a Norfolk Southern trainload headed towards that FEMA camp west of ATLANTA. That had to be for reasons that will be broken down on an Alex Jones newscast.


:P

[Grand58742]

I will admit though, having read some of your previous posts, the title piqued my interest...thought maybe you'd donned your own tinfoil LOL

Lol, I can get a little Reynolds Rapping from time to time. Difference is with me is I will follow down the information and determine the veracity of same. I have no problems following down links and attempting to determine if Occam's Razor applies or there really is something going on. Biggest problem with the typical tin foil stuff? Folks accept that at face vaue without doing their own homework, which in turn means they are unwillingly spreading disinformation and have, in turn, become some of the same sheeple they tend to rail on about. A sheep tends to baa on when the rest of the herd baas. A sheepdog tries to find out why they are making noise.

If one wants to accept everything at face value and not research the stories, okay, fine, but that's pretty much no different than 95% of the population out there that does little more than listen to the evening news with a slanted point of view. Every news story is a slant on something, even something as outlandish as some of the conspiracy theories out there. But the 5% that actually do their homework, check the sources, follow the links and cross check the information know better most of the time. I tend to think I fall into that category. Again, Occam's Razor. The simpliest solution is normally the correct one. Take the JFK assassination conspiracy theories for example.

The .gov said a lone gunman shot three times in 8 seconds. Three aimed shots including a head shot on a moving target and one bullet causing what, seven wounds and ending up nearly pristine on a hospital gurney? To me, this is extremely hard to do even for an experienced marksman with a notoriously inaccurate bolt action rifle. And this magic bullet theory? Yeah, not buying it. So simple answer? More than one gunman. Occam's Razor applies and there was a conspiracy.

Or in more recent events the Sandy Hook shooting...was it a large government conspiracy to get the gun control legislation moving or was it a lone individual with a history of mental problems that finally cracked up, killed his mother and went on a rampage? I've heard about that whole web page that supposedly was put out a week in advance or something to that effect. Real or was it a clever photoshop meant to inflame the situation and give people straws to grasp? Or the legislation that immediately hit the news. It's no huge secret Fineswine had legislation ready to go...she introduces the same bill almost every year so no conspiracy there. Just this year the heat was on and she finally got press and the public looking at it. The recording of the responding patrolman. Each and every cop and first responder can tell you the first fifteen minutes of any crisis are the worst for information gathering. Facts are not clear or the situation is changing. Was the public deliberately misled or was the situation dynamic enough that the information from the scene was not entirely accurate? Can we apply Occam's Razor here? A conspiracy or simply a kid with mental problems who went nuts?

Anyway...Occam's Razor in this instance of the MRAP. Did DHS suddenly get granted 2700 relatively new vehicles from the military after they spent $21 million refurbishing them or did they get a few of the same types which went unnoticed on either fed.biz.ops or were granted a limited number from the military? Biggest thing about that whole "they were upgraded for use in America" and all? That contract was negotiated and completed almost a year ago. Funny that little tidbit was missing from all the "reports" and blogs.

I have no problems looking into stuff that comes up, which again, 95% of the population won't do. I look at the angles and facts, track down what sources I can and make an educated decision on the matter. Others tend to take whatever they hear at face value and parrot it out as gospel even if the facts don't line up with conventional wisdom. And I have no idea why either as it goes against the "truth" principle they all seek to achieve. The .gov overall doesn't want you to question anything so I have no idea why someone wouldn't attempt to verify the facts of the matter and determine for themselves what the answers are. And furthermore why not ask why some folks (Alex Jones for example) put their own spin on things.

Simply put? Occam's Razor. Alex Jones would be broke and starving if nobody listened to his shows or read his web pages. So the outlandish stories continue to appear on his site, get folks in an uproar and in turn generate more hits and sponsorships waiting on the next "huge" story to appear. And get more folks to spread disinformation which in turn generates more hits, sponsorships, so on and so forth. So he continues to put out the articles that will get the press, fall back on "the government is lying and covering it up!" and watch the general internet crowd that follows him get in a tizzy. Next week, repeat process.

I have to give credit to a member of this site that emailed me recently. Folks are grasping at straws trying to understand what is happening and why. They are looking for any explanation of why their world is suddenly turning upside down. They have no idea why their quarter million dollar house is suddenly worth half what they paid, why the government is coming after their weapons, why our national debt is growing exponentially and why our elected leaders cannot even agree on the color of the sky. When someone offers them any explanation they will grab hold, no matter how obscene it might be, and accept it as "truth." And instead of critical thinking and trying to understand the information, they press on like a mindless automaton and spew forth said information. Instead of digging for the actual truth, they will accept whatever is told to them at face value just like a good little subject. And that's dangerous because those that will not question the message or the messanger will blindly follow them off the cliff.

People should be using the brain God placed between our ears and using it to seek out the truth. Not blindly following those who have an agenda. Learn to educate yourself, research and get to the bottom of the matter. Learn the facts and apply the common sense test. If it sounds peculiar, chances are, it probably is.

[1Admin]

My big problem with folks that get too tin foil'ey is what you see from them- VERY LITTLE ACTION.

They get too wrapped up in what some schmo says is coming tomorrow that they forget to PREPARE, BETTER THEMSELVES, TAKE ACTION.

Unlike quite a few that will read this and be pissed hearing me say this, I have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE dealing with hundreds of people caught in this cycle and witnessing thousands more caught up in this cycle.

Actually I wrote in the original "Survival Report" volume 17 or 18 back in the mid 90's a piece about how people often use these things to justify their INACTIONS. Sort of like this-

"I'm not going to store more than 2 weeks of food cause I heard you'd be considered a hoarder and put in jail."

REALITY- Their is nothing out there like that and if their was/is FUDGE THEM. My family is not going to starve because of some supposed BS edict.

"I'm not going to buy a gun cause then I'll be on a list."

REALITY- Guess you never heard of private sale? Or buying the weapon before your next MOVE, or paying your dumb drinking buddy $20. to sign for it? So your going to be UNARMED or possibly under armed because of the CHANCE that the boogeymen from the gubmint will take notice of you? DUMB. Get it under the radar if you can, but no matter what, get it, learn it, train with it regularly.

"I'm not going to meet with others cause their might be the wrong person there and we might get in trouble."

REALITY- Their is unfortunately always the possibility of meeting up with the "wrong person" i.e, someone who isn't who they say they are. The reality of the sitch right now folks is that the gubmint is more concerned about people that are messing with stupid stuff like full auto conversions, playing bo_b maker in their basement, etc. You should RUN from anyone that remotely even HINTS at such stupid endeavors! Have no part of even TALKING about things like this. Keep the "Civil War 2" talk to a minimum and avoid anyone you don't know that is spouting that kind of stuff and -in general- you'll be o.k.


The moral of the story is that A LOT NOT ALL of the folks that get too wrapped up in conspiracy theories are ones that end up NEVER ACCOMPLISHING ANYTHING. Their is always a reason NOT to do something in their mind and it often revolves around their FEAR of the gubmint.

Anything we try to build based off a negative emotion- like fear- won't last. "For God did not give us a spirit of fear, but of power and of a sound mind....."

Probably better than half of the fight is usually psychological. Many of you know I do a little H2H type stuff regularly. I've fought guys 300 lbs. 6'2" that honestly looked like the guy on the Green Giant cans. When I went out there going "oh man look at the size of this beast" I usually lost or ended about even. When I went out there going "well hell, I'll fight him, this ought to be fun" then I've won (everyone has to breathe not matter their size). The fight is in our MINDS first.

If we are curtailing our lives, survival plans, etc. (see the above in italics) than we have ALREADY LOST THE FIGHT- in our mind. And usually the ones that are the most conspiratorial and don't do anything, are the ones convinced they will be the "lone sniper". Oh wait, you have to 1. Have a decent rifle 2. Have training for that sort of work, so I guess that's impossible....

We need to be careful that the conspiracy theories don't bring us into INACTION AND APATHY.

Some may include some valuable "intel" most however will not.

To be bluntly honest, I don't pay attention to half of them. I just keep preparing, keep bettering myself and my family, keep training, keep meeting others, keep stocking up and most importantly- keep my nose clean.

When conspiracy theories hamper our plans and actions it's really like we end up living under communism already- IN OUR MINDS. The psy ops involved work if it makes us sit on our hands and not move forward.

[Bearman202]

Some good stuff here. I went through all that. One friend I talked about stocking up with actually said, "Yeah, and if you survive, it will be you and 10 million paranoid Mormons." Funny, but possible, I guess. The ones that worry about being on a list somewhere and in for a rude awakening. They're already on a list. I think it's something like 16 lists per person, now. They can track just about everything you do, if they want to. I personally don't worry about it, because if they're spending time checking up on me they've obviously got too much time on their hands anyway. I've bought guns over the internet before, (through an FFL holder) and don't worry about that much either. If the fecal matter hits the rotating oscillator, I'm not going to be at this address anyway. I don't keep everything in one place either. I have back-ups to my back-ups, for the most part, and at least three places to go if I need to. I worried about the .gov for about 5 minutes one day, then I talked to a friend who was in the artillery in the Marine Corps. I asked him about the guns they have available. He said they had a range of 35 miles. I was impressed. I asked him what kind of accuracy they could get at that range. He said, "We could hit a moving target." So much for taking on the .gov. I worry a lot more about the idiots out there who can't plan for more than a day at a time. My next door neighbor was running out of food after 3 days worth of snow. The weather people told us it was coming almost a week before it got here, but he still didn't get enough food in his apartment for a week? Yeah, they're out there, and there are a lot of them.

On the tinfoil stuff, I am at the place now that I ignore most of it. Unless it affects me directly, I don't worry about it. In essence, there isn't a lot I can do about it. If North Korea or Iran or China starts lobbing nukes at us, or shutting down the grid or whatever, there is about zero that I can do about that. Frankly, if the nukes start flying, I think the best place to be is ground zero. Get it over with quick, and you don't have to deal with the fallout. In the case of general collapse, with the neighbors going nuts, I should be okay. That won't last long, I don't think. If we can survive that, we should be okay. Just my opinion.