Bayonets

[Matt In Oklahoma]

It's been discussed here before but for those who must have politics mixed with training heres a very good article for ya. Maybe just maybe you will actually train with them since big O doesnt believe in them

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/331438/pointy-end-united-states-marine-corps-daniel-foster#?utm_source=Oct+26+BTW&utm_campaign=BTW+Oct+27&utm_medium=email

The Pointy End of the United States Marine Corps

By Daniel Foster
October 23, 2012 5:31 P.M. [UPDATED]

The development of the domesticated horse, Equus ferus caballus, into a weapon of war happened about six thousand years ago somewhere in Eurasia, and peaked with the destriers, coursers, and rounceys of medieval Europe. And while there are a few notable and relevant exceptions, as Nat notes, the warhorse entered a long, slow decline concurrent with the ramping up of the Industrial Revolution (see also: Light Brigade, Charge of the) and the mechanization of cavalry.

But contra the president

[rice paddy daddy]

My time in the Army was the late 1960's. Our basic training rifle was the M14 and considerable time was spent learning The Spirit Of The Bayonet. Almost daily, in fact. And reinforced with pugil stick fighting. I don't know how the Army does it today.
Bayonet fighting is more than just sticking people, it is a fighting system using the blade and the rifle in different moves. We were even trained in defeating a bayonet armed enemy when we were weaponless.
I don't know about butt stroking someone using a collapsable plastic stock, but a 10 pound wooden stocked M14 carries some authority.:)
The only accessories I have added to my M1A, M1 Garand, M1903A3, or my AK47 are military issue cotton web slings. And military issue bayonets.:cool:
Like the man in the article said, there might be times you get caught with an empty rifle.

[Jerry D Young]

Not as educated, experienced, or eloquent, here are my thoughts on the bayonet:

The Bayonet

When my father went through bayonet training during WW II it was not just for a last ditch effort after running out of ammunition. The bayonet was to be fixed when close quarters combat was anticipated. You did not just use the sharp end of the bayonet, either. You also slashed and used butt strokes and butt hammers. The use of the bayonet lessened the possibility of hitting you own troops with rifle fire when the combat was at CQC range with troops of both sides intermixed in a small area.

Since it is quite possible for the bayonet to become lodged in a bone in the enemy, standard procedure was to fire a round if the bayonet did not immediately come out of the enemy's body when the rifle was pulled back. The recoil would assist in disengaging the bayonet from the body and you were then free to carry on the attack.

There are lesser uses for the bayonet, not the least of which is prisoner control. A guard needs an intermediate response between doing nothing and firing upon unarmed prisoners. The bayonet can take that role on quite easily. The threat of it, as well as the gentle (if that term may be used) prodding with it will often cause the prisoner to do what the guard wishes. You also have recourse to the fully deadly use of the bayonet to resolve the issue, with a round from the rifle as last resort.

The bayonet is also a psychological threat, by showing that the soldier is willing and able to take the combat to the face to face stage. If a unit is known to have used the bayonet effectively, it will weigh upon the enemy to one degree or another. The sight of fixed bayonets when close quarter combat is expected will, in many cases, affect the willingness of the enemy to press the attack.

These facts listed, you should be able to tell that I believe that the use of the bayonet still has legitimate value.

I have the relatively new OKC-3S Marine Corps bayonets for my PTR-91 as well as my Remington 11-87. If/when I get a couple of .30 M1 Carbines, I will be getting bayonets for them.

[RVN11B]

I admit, that when I heard the moronic statement about bayonets and such I choked on my iced tea. This was the very same reaction to when I read about when bayonet training was to be eliminated from basic training in order to do some stupid 'social enlightenment requirements'.

My immediate gut reaction was to state that the mind set of the 'Spirit of the Bayonet' was the best enlightenment training a soldier would ever need.

Damned stupid politicians! Military and Civilian!

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I came from a unit whos motto was "FIX BAYONETS"!
Even when they forced unarmed missions and unamred duties on us we were all issued M9 bayonets because we were "Soldiers".

[PJaster]

I recall, some 44 years ago, "Plus a little bit..." having our Drill Sargent's tell us we were going to be the First Battalion to be cross-trained onto the M16 platform, having just finished M-14 Bayonet & pugil stick training....

The first thing Drill Sargent Martinez said was, "Uhh, I don't think we will do Bayonet Training with it"

He was "old School" Before the M-14.... and thought THAT was a lightweight weapon!

I have seen the Power of the Upper Butt Stroke, in pugil action: from my hometown High School, State Wrestling Champion in the 130 pound category (Danny V. worked hard to bulk out for the Armies minimum weight), Drill Sgt. M. spoke in low whispers to Danny.... the he ordered his opponent Front & Center ... the biggest tallest widest recruit in our company... An Oakland Dock longshoreman, yes he came out... BOTH in the needed protection equipment, Drill Sgt. said ready, FIGHT.

Danny spread his left leg forward, dropping his height a few more inches, he was the Shortest recruit in our company.

An Upper Butt Stroke, connected with the longshoreman, who was lifted at least Six Inches off the ground, and dropped, like making our earth shake.

Danny & Goliath. Danny won.

I would love to see the Empty Chair even try to hold a rifle correctly, let alone "Fix Bayonets" Ohh, that's right we don't have those according to C-I-C, do we...

Knowing the PTR can take the Marines Bayonet makes me want to add one, just because I still remember ALL the thrusts, Parries, UBS, from Bayonet Drill, unsheathed upon the M-14

BTW, Early November, '68 was my graduation from Fort Lewis Basic Training....

[Jerry D Young]

I have a hard to find special bayonet adapter for the PTR. I'm sure any good machine shop can make one, but without it, only the HK bayonet will work. My custom 11-87 also has an adapter and custom build nose on the extended magazine to take the OKC-3S bayonet.

Didn't mean to give a false impression.

[PJaster]

Jerry, thanks for the explanation... Did you have it custom made?

Just Curious.....

[Grinnan Barrett]

The only time I really use a bayonet on a rifle is for one that was sited with the bayonet in place. The Mosin Nagant is a great example.

Like Jerry D I love the US current bayonet but I use it more as a blade and cutter. It does fit on my Mossburg 590. GB

[Jerry D Young]

Jerry, thanks for the explanation... Did you have it custom made?

Just Curious.....

The PTR-91 adapter was a factory item. I got the last one the company had and haven't been able to find another. I know a couple of people that want one so they can use the bayonets that fit M-16 series. It shouldn't be too hard to have one made at a machine shop. I'd take the cocking tube end cap in and something with an M-16 bayonet lug so they can get the measurements. The factory one was only $38.00. I suspect the machine shop made one might be higer.

The latch for the Remington 11-87 was a factory item. The nose piece on the magazine extension was custom made. Just a round piece of rod the right size, with a hex screw into the end of the magazine tube which was threaded. It is a Tac-Star extension and alredy had a hole in the end of it.

http://sjhardware.com/store/modules.php?name=catalog&file=index&cPath=107_121&osCsid=0b565df5c34eae11d491486886eb4dc6

[Mannlicher]

I have all my 'social rifles' fitted with a bayonet. Probably won't ever need it, but dang it, I feel that something as simple as that should be included in the package if possible.

[hua man]

Have it and not need it.

I had a bayonet that went well with my MBR. Buck made M9 type. I have no problem with the previous models. Even my sks had a bayonet.

damn thieves.