trucker and the 4th amedment

[556x45]

seems the border patrol had NO answer for this trucker.....way to go...more of us need to stand up for are rights.....the supervisor had no answer and could not cominate the driver....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nfGMRjtv7DU

[Grand58742]

This has little to do with "rights" and more to do with the apparent problem the driver had with the border patrol. While yes, they might have been further away from the border, this isn't entirely uncommon especially since most illegals don't try to come across at the main border crossing stations. Times have changed and when they come across on foot, they get picked up on the back side of the traditional border crossings and head further into Estados Unidos from there. So change the tactics, change the location in which we are checking for the illegals and drugs coming across the border and getting into an already overburdened system.

Now how hard was it for the driver to say "no, I don't have any passengers, I came from XX and have XX in the back." And "why yes, I'm a US citizen, here's my identification."

And lastly, but most importantly in my mind, "thanks for keeping us safe."

I see this far too often, making a scene on a camera for the benefit of making a scene. And while I agree out rights need to be protected, there was nothing the border patrol agents were doing that was unprofessional nor illegal. Those agents were put out there to do a job and cannot influence the decisions made by a higher authority. Higher authority placed those checkpoints back away from the border, not them. But they are there to attempt to stem the flow if illegal activity in a time where several thousand aliens cross the border every week. And frankly, they are no different than a State Trooper enforcing the speed limit on an Interstate or a Deputy Sheriff busting up a meth lab in a rural county. They are law enforcement there to enforce the immigration laws in the United States, nothing more and nothing less.

Here's where it stems from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_Interior_Checkpoints

Chances are had the driver answered those quick questions he would have been on his way. And what they were doing was far, far, far less intrusive than what gets done at any airport by the TSA. They are there to stem the tide of illegal aliens (I refuse to use the term "undocumented workers" or "illegal immigrants" since it implies they had an immigration status to begin with) as well as illegal narcotics crossing the border. Which, if I recall correctly, the general public is screaming about to put a stop to.

Frankly, this is a case of what NOT to do as opposed to being a complete butthead to weary border crossing agents that are there just to do a job. Don't agree with the stations being that far back from the border? Write your Congressman or Senator and demand they get it changed. Otherwise, don't take it out on the workers that have nothing to do with policy besides enforcing it. And doing so in a polite and professional manner.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

yep, thanks for tying up valuable resourses so that the real criminals can get away. The rights were not violated and in reference to "rights" might wanna do some more research on commerical licensing/trucking before acting out like a child like this one, things would have gone real different for him had it been a State Officer familiar with the commercial vehicle laws, instead it was just a guy trying to stop some more economic sucking illegals from mooching off our already broken system. Also try working as a LEO and see what is really going on away from the keyboard. Yep "standing up" is more than bashing those who are keeping criminals from stealing Americas resources with agendas.
This really has nothing to do with survival or prepardness

[Klayton]

I agree with Grand. Unlike most Americans, when I am asked by the pretty lady to show my ID with my CC I say THANK YOU!! Because SHE is doing her job, to keep ME from being ripped off.

[556x45]

whats that quote something like when you give up freedom for safety you have neither...reality of the situation the border patrol at first din't even know how from the border the station was..if they would enforce the border then we would not be having this discussion now would we.it called border patrol so my way of rthinking maybe they should be on the border. did you miss the part where he asked the patrol officer if he had crossed the border? asnwwer was and just cause an agency of the government says what someone is doing is O.K doesn't make it so....that is why we as a Republic aree in such an awful mess..the go9vernment says so. means we must be nice littlew sheeple and comply. how many of you like the gropings of the TSA? same ****.sorry for the rant.

[Klayton]

556, I am not sure any of us are giving up freedoms in this situation.
If I am pulled over by the police, I am required by law to produce 3 things, my DL, my insurance papers, and my CHL. I have no problem with any of these, as they are all laws that we as society accept. DL make sure people are atleast somewhat competent when it comes to rules of the road, and in most states (excluding Arizona with their insane one time license until age 65) have adequate eye sight to not be a danger to yourself or others, the insurance papers is a requirement in many states (including the great state of TX) it helps raise the number of insured motorist, which lowers my rates, and my property insurance, finally my CHL, it lets the cops know I am carrying yes, but more importantly it immediately tells them I am a law abiding citizen and not just some scumbag.

Now if the police officer asks to search my vehicle, I decline, yes, because he has no right to invade my personal property. He would have to have probabe cause for a warrant to search my vehicle. So, again, I would deny it, if he said I could not deny it, I would have him give me his name and badge number (because everything is being recorded) and then I would slightly raise my voice and say I DO NOT CONSENT TO SEARCH!! If he wants to keep his job, he better know the next correct step to make.

[Grand58742]

So instead of, again, blaming the sword for the hand that wields it, you've decided it's "Unconstitutional" to put illegal alien checkpoints anywhere other than the border? And that's it's illegal for a dedicated immigration specialist to ask questions in close proximity to the border for a truck driver who's being evasive?

There is no law, no regulation and no code stating where immigration checkpoints can be. Traditionally they are at the borders, but with the widespread epidemic of illegal aliens in our country, it makes sense to attempt to put them in places where they aren't expected. And for the law abiding citizens who have a genuine concern for this problem it's probably not a big deal. I have no issues showing an ID and explaining where I'm from. And yes, they have border checkpoints, but they can't be everywhere at all times and some, a lot, are going to slip through. So again, putting up checkpoints in places they aren't expected is a wise move.

So, have you contacted your duly elected representatives about this already? Asked them why the checkpoints are so far back from the border? Or even contacted the DHS and gotten the reasons why? ICE would probably provide you with an answer if you asked instead of just posting up a rant about it on the internet. And it's Benjamin Franklin "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." And on the opposite side without security there is no liberty. It's a fine balance between the two and checkpoints to ensure illegal drugs and aliens are not permitted to get into the country comes in on the right side of that balance I personally think. How many of those illegals would/could be voting in the election coming up to maintain the status quo and continue the policies of letting everyone who wants to slip across the border do so? Or keep the same administration in office that files lawsuits against States attempting to combat the problem of illegal aliens? Or stopping the flow of drugs to people who would sell them to your kids? Or the person who buys them and gets high before running their car into a school playground? I guess that's just hunky dory in your world as long as the "invasive questions" from ICE Agents don't get asked and we don't put up checkpoints at anywhere but the borders.

A little extra security isn't a bad thing. And if it means combating the illegal flow of aliens and drugs, so be it. It's not hurting anyone's "rights" to answer a couple of questions about where they came from. Being evasive with a police officer means they will pry that much deeper because it looks like you are trying to hide something. They have a job to do and being a complete...butt about it doesn't help matters much. Rights are one thing. An LEO or ICE Official asking simple questions isn't a violation of rights. Try leaving the country and coming back in from certain countries if you want to see probing questions. Trust me, I've been there and done that. And frankly, I didn't mind since they have their job to do and the more cooperative and compliant I am means I move along that much quicker.

And your comments about "they didn't even know how far away from the border they were." Never made a mistake or been wrong about anything in your life have you? They deal with hundreds if not thousands of people per day and chances are they may mistake exactly how far away from a certain place they are. So cut the guy a break will you? Minor mistake that didn't even come close to affecting the overall outcome of the stop. And lets face it, it could have been far worse if they decided to call up the local highway patrol to start checking logs, weighing in, checking a CDL, inspecting his rig...all sorts of things they could have done but let him go. But again, professional.

Overall, we can take this as a lesson in what not to do since the outcome, depending on the officer involved, can be far worse than this one. While he may not have been doing anything illegal, I know trucks have a schedule to meet and companies generally frown on late deliveries. And a four hour stop in which your rig gets legally ripped apart by a highway patrolman who happened to be friends with the ICE Agent because their kids played ball together? Sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.

[556x45]

and just when does the "balance" stop being a "ballance and become something else. thje trucker explained more than once he was not going to comply with the search. question do you really believe the agents would have been so understanding if they didn't know they were being filmed? as for the driver he didn't raise his voice and I thought was very calm asked the first office for his name etc. even after he stated his
5th amendmnet rights and told them he would answer no more questions without a lawyer they continued...oh whats the point I see something here you don't.

[Grand58742]

Jimmy,

Border Patrol falls under ICE which has no jurisdictional boundaries since they control all facets of immigration to include international airports. We have a detachment here in OKC I believe and we are far from any international airport. They go where the work is. Basically they can investigate any crime related to the border so it's vague enough to let them roam wherever they need to.

[556x45]

Grandpart of your response is below


Overall, we can take this as a lesson in what not to do since the outcome, depending on the officer involved, can be far worse than this one. While he may not have been doing anything illegal, I know trucks have a schedule to meet and companies generally frown on late deliveries. And a four hour stop in which your rig gets legally ripped apart by a highway patrolman who happened to be friends with the ICE Agent because their kids played ball together? Sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.


you see anything wrong with this attitude let sleeping dogs lie...I wonder if the good germans thought the same thing as the jews were rounded up.

[Grand58742]

and just when does the "balance" stop being a "ballance and become something else. thje trucker explained more than once he was not going to comply with the search. question do you really believe the agents would have been so understanding if they didn't know they were being filmed? as for the driver he didn't raise his voice and I thought was very calm asked the first office for his name etc. even after he stated his
5th amendmnet rights and told them he would answer no more questions without a lawyer they continued...oh whats the point I see something here you don't.

First quote out of the guy's mouth "Am I free to go?" No "Hiya officer." No "hows it going." No professional dialog whatsoever. Started out by putting the Agent on the defensive. But oh, he's so right since his RIGHTS are being violated by a checkpoint which isn't illegal and not answering the simple questions of "are you traveling with anyone" and "are you a US citizen?"

And don't question my intelligence or my motives. I've been in the law enforcement world for 19 years and know how to pick apart a video for all pieces of information. If the Agent was in the wrong, I would state he was in the wrong. If the driver was wrong (which I believe he didn't make the situation easier) I would and did state same. I've busted dirty cops before so don't think this is a thin blue line protecting their own. I see everything and saw everything and frankly, nothing that happened in that video was illegal nor was it in violation to the laws of the United States.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

whats that quote something like when you give up freedom for safety you have neither...reality of the situation the border patrol at first din't even know how from the border the station was..if they would enforce the border then we would not be having this discussion now would we. it called border patrol so my way of rthinking maybe they should be on the border.BICE=Bureau of IMMIGRATION CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT, they are not limited to the border, ya know why? cause them suckers make it past the border alllllll the time, just ask any state especially yours, they have complaints about the cost of education and healthcare too! did you miss the part where he asked the patrol officer if he had crossed the border? So if you dont cross the border you cant possibly have illegals in the rig right?asnwwer was and just cause an agency of the government says what someone is doing is O.K doesn't make it so....that is why we as a Republic aree in such an awful mess..the go9vernment says so. means we must be nice You are the government, We The People, I blame you because I was gone for years doing my job while you were here LOL littlew sheeple calling who a sheeple? Me? The trucker with the CDL who knows he has to answer the questions BEFORE he gets licensed or even tested and agrees to be licensed? You? The class3 sales who complies daily? who? and comply. how many of you like the gropings of the TSA?Dont like it at all but know whats coming before I make the choice, Dont fly, dont whine when ahab makes it past and ****** punches us again, build a better solution to the ever present dangers that still occur daily so TSA agents dont have to touch nasty non-showering and sick, diseased people who want security as long as it doesnt involve them because they should be allowed to carry a chainsaw in the plane like happened on the day I flew last same ****.sorry for the rant.

Still looking for skills postings without agendas, cant see them, nope still cant see them, still looking and .......

[Grand58742]

Grandpart of your response is below

you see anything wrong with this attitude let sleeping dogs lie...I wonder if the good germans thought the same thing as the jews were rounded up.

I had a feeling this was about to come up. But since I have to get to work, I'l make my retort simple and less worded.

No.

Two entirely completely different situations between the an Agent checking a truck in close proximity to the border and a guard at a concentration camp who knows the people inside are being murdered.

Don't bring it back up either.

[xdpatriot]

I read this several times. I do think the driver was, for the most part, out of line. The officers weren't rude or intrusive, I've dealt with them before, even taken them steaks when we were camping. I personally don't treat them this way but I can understand why someone who has had bad experiences with LEOs in the past, could. (I don't know that this driver had.)

I don't like the comment from the officer about 'do you have a problem with law enforcement?', but then again, the driver was being difficult. As far as a state trooper coming up and thouroghly searching him because it was his buddy and their kids play ball together, I don't think that would be appropriate either. Officers shouldn't take it personally, as these did not. They were extremely professional.

I don't try to antagonize law enforcement. In our little town, when I was younger, kids that got caught with a couple of beers or messing with a road sign would be scared, forced to pour out the booze and their parents called. ( a much worse punishment at my house). Officers didn't haul the kids in, write a ticket and feel good about ruining a kids record. People have changed, even LEOs. I understand that a few bad apples shouldn't ruin the rep of all LEOs, but LEOs need to remember that about civilians as well. We've had LEOs in our area stop women in traffic stops just to ask them out on dates, knowing they were married. We've had state LEOs park in people's yard( on the street) intimidating them because the civilian bought their wives lunch. I can imagine what LEOs go through, you see it in society every day. That doesn't give them the reason to assume all civilians are common criminals. It's innocent until proven guilty..... BOTH WAYS! Don't assume a LEO is a bad one until he gives you a reason. It seems to me that society as a whole is becoming more rude and intolerant of each other, civilians and LEOs alike. I do know one thing, if you don't like things about your job, you can always change professions. I did. Hopefully the driver got down the road, realized he was wrong and acted with more respect next time. Like i stated before, these officers acted professionally and top notch. They should be commended and thanked by civies. They obviously respected the mans rights.

[556x45]

Still looking for skills postings without agendas, cant see them, nope still cant see them, still looking and .......

clever, very clever