Us vs. Them

[Bearman202]

I wanted to throw out a comment about taking an Us vs. Them attitude. I noticed myself doing it, and realized that it's wrong. To put it as simply as possible, the better everyone around you is doing, the better you're going to do. If you can convince ONE person to become better prepared for a disaster, and they convince ONE person to do the same, that's TWO people you're not going to have to worry about if TSHTF. Specifically, I'm thinking about the police and others in positions of authority. If we take an Us vs. Them attitude toward them, they're going to end up with the same attitude. If something bad does happen, they're a LOT less likely to come apart if they feel that they have some community support, and they're also much less likely to respond to orders from an outside agency to do something to people they know.

I'm not talking about walking a stranger through your preps. That would just be silly, but every now and then, I make a comment about, "Wow, I wonder how long I could survive if a tornado wiped out the stores here?" and wait for a response. Just getting them thinking about the possibilities is a step forward, IMHO. Keep in mind that to them, WE are the "them" that they're worried about. If we can reassure them that we're not a bunch of tinfoil-hat wearing whackos, they stop worrying, and maybe, just maybe, start preparing. Something to think about?

[protus]

I wanted to throw out a comment about taking an Us vs. Them attitude. I noticed myself doing it, and realized that it's wrong. To put it as simply as possible, the better everyone around you is doing, the better you're going to do. If you can convince ONE person to become better prepared for a disaster, and they convince ONE person to do the same, that's TWO people you're not going to have to worry about if TSHTF. Specifically, I'm thinking about the police and others in positions of authority. If we take an Us vs. Them attitude toward them, they're going to end up with the same attitude. If something bad does happen, they're a LOT less likely to come apart if they feel that they have some community support, and they're also much less likely to respond to orders from an outside agency to do something to people they know.

I'm not talking about walking a stranger through your preps. That would just be silly, but every now and then, I make a comment about, "Wow, I wonder how long I could survive if a tornado wiped out the stores here?" and wait for a response. Just getting them thinking about the possibilities is a step forward, IMHO. Keep in mind that to them, WE are the "them" that they're worried about. If we can reassure them that we're not a bunch of tinfoil-hat wearing whackos, they stop worrying, and maybe, just maybe, start preparing. Something to think about?

Thats only 2 of the many reasons i started making my movies and im sure why RH started this forum. To help people!

[Klayton]

My approach, don't let them know you are a "them". =)
I NEVER bring up preparedeness or survivalism in casual conversation. My idea, if they know I am a hard core survivalist, when SHTF they are going to remember who has the stockpile of food and water...

Now if I notice someone asking preparedness questions, I will show an interest and see where the conversation goes. But again, I NEVER let outsiders know "Hey thats the guy with the food and water..."

[EX121]

Interesting thoughts. My question is how do you approach friends with the idea of forming an alliance or retreat group. i volunteer with the American Red Cross & one of the things I do is give prepardness talks to different civic groups. These talks are pretty basic, make a plan, get a kit, determine how to get the family together, etc. My friends know this & we have talked in general terms, but how have you others broached the subject of forming a survival group?

[610Alpha]

I haven't yet, I really just got on board even though I have had a leaning toward this all my life. I am going to be broaching the subject with my wife about making sure we have emergency kits in all our vehicles and to start making plans in the event of a Fire, Tornado etc... to get the ball rolling. I'll let you know how that goes.

So how do you let the authorities know you're not a nut job without letting them know you have a stockpile of supplies that they could deem as necessary to confiscate from you to give to others or themselves? Cops are not above becoming neanderthals in these situations.

Could it be that by participating in disaster training/events/blatty blah that they figure out that you are "prepared" enough to have a plan (by default since you helped out in the blatty blah that you would be willing help out in the actual event) and leave it at that? Or could it be by getting a HAM license that would be enough, HAM operators help out in disaster situations I believe.

[Longhunter]

Us vs. them, yes I too have realized that it might not be the best approach. It is hard to maintain OPSEC while trying to inform others about preparedness, but it can be done. It was brought up in another discussion about all the recent survival type shows. Those can be great conversation pieces. Yes I know alot of it is hollywood B.S., but still some things can be learned and it gets people thinking about what they would do in that situation.

As far as my situation, my family, friends and neighbors know I am in the military and I am into survival stuff. But I don't discuss specifics with anyone I am not 100% sure I can trust. I have found most people are willing to take some steps to becoming better prepared. Start small and don't talk end of the world doom and gloom the first conversation.

We all have knowledge that can be shared and used to help people get into survival/preparedness, so don't be scared to share it. But be careful and maintain OPSEC while doing it. After all, the more there are of US, the less there are of THEM. ;)

[All Talk]

When you consider the broad scope of possible unpleasantness we should prepare for, and if you take the probabalistic position that more mild (but plenty disruptive) is more likely than the more extreme (rapid collapse and zombie hordes), "Us vs. Them" contingencies become more important to consider. [This dosn't seem to be the thread to argue, as many probably will, that my premise is incorrect about more likely mild events]

In less devastating but nonetheless highly disruptive events (say widespread rioting, quarantine/epidemics, extended black-outs, severe natural disasters), if you are a prepper in a more populated area, rather than bugging out (maybe you don't even have a retreat -- I don't), being prepared to enlist a coordinated group AFTER things start falling apart might be a viable and wise move.

What would this take?

Advanced evaluation of neighbors and maybe local organizations (local village board, red cross chapter, etc) for level-headedness, reliability, etc (but this will be hard without a real SHTF event to truly test others' mettle). Perhaps extra supplies, not particularly in the way of food (don't want to be advertizing that) but conviently you might have extra water filters on account of your camping lifestyle, you might have some weapons to share with the right folks, and hey, did I never mention I have some training in group tactics (i was military, I was checking out a career in LE, what have you).

Neighborhood watch groups might be a good way to organize and assess others. When SHTF (again, in one of the milder forms), lo and behold you're already known as a steady eddie who hunts, was ex-military, whatever, who ONLY THEN, as if it's pretty much a new idea to you, starts proposing certain collective measures and wouldn't you know it, your ideas are very sound, as though you had been thinking about it forever (which you might want to deny even in the event -- not a time for gloating).

[Klayton]

Well, one thing you may want to consider is whom you will be wanting to recruit.
Sure average joe's are good infantry/guards, but they eat too. My point is if you are going to sacrifice some of your stockpile or consolidate with their stockpile, try to recruit a person that is a real asset.
EMT | Medical Doctor | or licensed pharmicist would be on the top of my list.

How to start the conversation? Perhaps simply saying, man this world is going to **LL in a handbasket, and the conversation will either fork off to preparedness or flutter out into nothing...

Just a thought...

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I've been working on it, wow is it hard! "Friends" suddenly aint. I'm not even that hard lined but the mere mention to anyone outside of LDS church goers and I have hit walls. The only thing that has been helping sadly is the TV with all the shows and Wed night at the range on the outdoor channel with the Best Defense. I know that some here have bashed it but it has opened a few up to the idea anyway. I found some real lazy folks too. I dunno maybe I'm just in a slump. The bad thing is these same one are the first one running to us when the weather hits.

[Bearman202]

What I was thinking was more along the lines of planting seeds, rather than actually recruiting. Picking up an extra can or two at the supermarket, and casually commenting to someone standing nearby that "my sister lost power in (a town not here) and they couldn't get food or water for a week!" Just to get people thinking. There is no way that I would consider letting people know what I have, or even where I live, unless I knew them REALLY well. The idea is that if they have a week or more worth of food on hand, they will be less likely to join the mob. I'm not talking about walking around actively promoting prepping, as that would get you labeled as a tinfoil-hat type in a heartbeat, just planting a few seeds.

[Bearman202]

Cops, etc.

The other thought about cops was that they would be even easier to talk to, if you kept the conversation around guns. Most cops like guns, although a surprising number of them do no practice at all. A friend is a member of a local gun club, and told me that he had tried to get some cops to join, or even show up and practice, and they wouldn't do it. Scary. Maybe just having a pleasant conversation with a local cop? The idea there is that a lot of them only deal with the bottom of the gene pool, and come to believe that EVERYONE is like that. Showing that they we're not all felons waiting to take them out could do a lot, IMHO, to remind them of their humanity.

[Klayton]

Bearman202 this is why many police departments have changed their weapon qualifications from a point score to a pass or fail score. Lawyers love it when cops use the point system and when in court they can say, cop So-N-So only qualifed with a score of 71 out of 100, with 70 being the minimum for passing. Shows the cop as almost incompetent to be shooting anywhere there are innocent bystanders...

[Lowdown3]

Seeing a lot of LEO's at classes it would seem quite a few of them aren't supported by their departments as far as continued education/ongoing training in firearms is concerned.

That being said I spar with a guy that 2-3 times a year gets sent to Sniper schools and misc. "advanced" police schools. Exchanging info with him it would seem that some of these schools are on par- maybe even slightly below what you could pay for in the civilian realm.

That's not dogging LEO's, by far most are great folks and they need our support when they are in the right. And yes sometimes they get in the wrong (as we ALL do).

[610Alpha]

What I was thinking was more along the lines of planting seeds, rather than actually recruiting. Picking up an extra can or two at the supermarket, and casually commenting to someone standing nearby that "my sister lost power in (a town not here) and they couldn't get food or water for a week!" Just to get people thinking. There is no way that I would consider letting people know what I have, or even where I live, unless I knew them REALLY well. The idea is that if they have a week or more worth of food on hand, they will be less likely to join the mob. I'm not talking about walking around actively promoting prepping, as that would get you labeled as a tinfoil-hat type in a heartbeat, just planting a few seeds.

I see what you are saying. I'll try it out and let you know what response I get.

[Lowdown3]

That's usually the best approach. You drop a couple hints, if they show interest say something like "I read somewhere that rice stored a long time." That is much different than saying "I have 4,000 lbs. of rice for my family, you should store some too." LOL

Another good way is to loan them a book like "Patriots" or "One second after." Later you can follow up asking about it. "Good book huh?" Reply- yeah it was good. "Do you really think something like that could happen?"

Reply from uninterested, liberal thinker or just plain idjit- "No way the gubmint would take care of me."

Your response- "Oh you ain't kidding man, I think so too." Opsec keeper.

If the response is "yeah I could see it happening..."

Then your opened up for SLOWLY starting to discuss preparedness with them.

It is a fiction book, so it's a great "opener" for conversations. Just be ready to talk your way OUT of it as good as you can talk your way INTO it. :)