Sheepdog Law Proposal

[WILL]

"I would rather see Constitutional Carry(no permit required) passed across the nation. "

+1 on that, good post!

[Greg B.]

Why not enforce the existing law? "The Right...shall not be infringed."

This is the ONLY legitimate law.

[WILL]

Why not enforce the existing law? "The Right...shall not be infringed."

Uh, I don't know, somebody change the English language while we weren't looking??


G

The Constitution was passed long ago... We just need judges and law enforcement to follow it! And Law Makers to go back and re-read it... Then work on removing all those laws that try to "work around" it!

I'm against unlimited armament for the public and open carry. Just because the constitution says it's OK to keep and bear arms, I don't want people around me developing chemical weapons, driving around town in gun trucks or carrying rocket launchers or assault rifles over their shoulder, grenade belts, claymore mines, ect. No thanks, limits are good. Also, if a weapons out, I want that to be a clear indication that something’s seriously wrong. Think deeply about the reality of the issue before you rebut what I’m saying here.

[Mjollnir]

I'm against unlimited armament for the public and open carry. Just because the constitution says it's OK to keep and bear arms, I don't want people around me developing chemical weapons, driving around town in gun trucks or carrying rocket launchers or assault rifles over their shoulder, grenade belts, claymore mines, ect. No thanks, limits are good. Also, if a weapons out, I want that to be a clear indication that something’s seriously wrong. Think deeply about the reality of the issue before you rebut what I’m saying here.

I disagree to point simply because much of that you mentioned is currently illegal and yet anyone with access to the net who possesses half a brain with a little ingenuity and the will, could potentially make similar improvised destructive devices. Unfortunately you can't legislate crazy! People who truly want to inflict violene on others will find a way to do so..... whether that is blowing up a federal building with a truck load of fertilizer, flying a small plane into an IRS building in TX, or shooting up a crowded theater and booby-trapping your apartment with home-made explosives. Laws only stop the law-abiding. That said, I don't think people should have access to nukes and such WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION.

I've lived in several open carry states in the past and have seen numerous people exercise the right to do so with no ill effect and have been known to do it myself from time to time. I'm not opposed to people carrying their Assault Rifle on their shoulder either so as long as they are doing so in a safe manner and are not acting like a retard. Violent criminals carry concealed all the time. Just because someone chooses to open carry doesn't make them a threat nor does someone who CC make them less of one. I personally view every person I encounter to be a potential threat until proved otherwise. Additionally, I've come to realize that the vast majority of people are self-absorbed and unobservent. Been around people carrying open for hours and they didn't notice I was carrying until others mentioned something about it.

[JUSTIFIED]

I would rather see Constitutional Carry(no permit required) passed across the nation.

That would be my hope but since there are too many libs in the country to let that happen I think this should remain a state issue. I don't trust the Feds any farther than I can throw them...when I hit them with my truck....

[WILL]

I disagree to point simply because much of that you mentioned is currently illegal and yet anyone with access to the net who possesses half a brain with a little ingenuity and the will, could potentially make similar improvised destructive devices. Unfortunately you can't legislate crazy! People who truly want to inflict violene on others will find a way to do so..... whether that is blowing up a federal building with a truck load of fertilizer, flying a small plane into an IRS building in TX, or shooting up a crowded theater and booby-trapping your apartment with home-made explosives. Laws only stop the law-abiding. That said, I don't think people should have access to nukes and such WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION.

I've lived in several open carry states in the past and have seen numerous people exercise the right to do so with no ill effect and have been known to do it myself from time to time. I'm not opposed to people carrying their Assault Rifle on their shoulder either so as long as they are doing so in a safe manner and are not acting like a retard. Violent criminals carry concealed all the time. Just because someone chooses to open carry doesn't make them a threat nor does someone who CC make them less of one. I personally view every person I encounter to be a potential threat until proved otherwise. Additionally, I've come to realize that the vast majority of people are self-absorbed and unobservent. Been around people carrying open for hours and they didn't notice I was carrying until others mentioned something about it.

What do you consider a weapon of mass destruction? For example, would you be OK with Wal-Mart selling shoulder fired missiles and frag grenades? Have you considered what will begin happening when legally purchased grenades and rocket launchers are stolen in burglaries? How do you feel about people walking around town with AK47s slung over their shoulder? Does that make you feel safer...or not? Answer honestly please. I realize crazy people can fabricate bombs and create missiles out of fast moving objects, but flooding the market with those items is a whole different animal, no? Personally, I prefer CCW and no public access to military grade weapons, but that's just me.

[JUSTIFIED]

What do you consider a weapon of mass destruction? For example, would you be OK with Wal-Mart selling shoulder fired missiles and frag grenades? Have you considered what will begin happening when legally purchased grenades and rocket launchers are stolen in burglaries? How do you feel about people walking around town with AK47s slung over their shoulder? Does that make you feel safer...or not? Answer honestly please. I realize crazy people can fabricate bombs and create missiles out of fast moving objects, but flooding the market with those items is a whole different animal, no? Personally, I prefer CCW and no public access to military grade weapons, but that's just me.

Define military grade weapons. There many weapons civilians legally own that military and law enforcement use. AKs, ARs, etc....I have no problem with someone toting a rifle around town as long as it's legal. It will deter crime and I'm for it. Arizona and other states allow open/carry and Oklahoma will be added to the list Nov. 1st.

[Mjollnir]

What do you consider a weapon of mass destruction? Nukes, biological/viral weapons For example, would you be OK with Wal-Mart selling shoulder fired missiles and frag grenades? As I stated in my previous post... they can be made by a determined person Have you considered what will begin happening when legally purchased grenades and rocket launchers are stolen in burglaries? I have. How do you feel about people walking around town with AK47s slung over their shoulder? Does that make you feel safer...or not? Answer honestly please. Just carrying a weapon does not bother me in the least. It has to do with individual intent. Is there potential for misuse??? Sure as with everything else with the potential to cause harm. I realize crazy people can fabricate bombs and create missiles out of fast moving objects, but flooding the market with those items is a whole different animal, no? Personally, I prefer CCW and no public access to military grade weapons, but that's just me.

More or less was playing the devil's advocate here. I do believe it would be detrimental to public safety at this point to make some of these items readily availible within our society currently without some type of regulations.

[WILL]

OK, thanks for the reply. I only brought up this issue because alot of constitutional bravado started getting thrown around earlier. It begs the questions I asked. Obviously there are a significant amount of limits on the second amendment already, hence none of us possess nuclear, biological, chemical weapons, grenades, claymore mines, anti-tank rockets, ect, and most here seem just fine with that. So really, were simply debating the matter of how much the government should limit our right to bear arms. In other words, what’s reasonable for the average citizen in order to protect themselves?

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

The 2nd Amendment is all about BALANCE OF POWER... Not protection from your neighbor or random Joe on the street. It is about protecting ourselves from an out of control GOVERNMENT. SO any infringing on that right by the governmernt is a SHIFT in the Balance of Power in favor of the government. Once shifted enough towards the favor of the Government then it can be easily abused. That Power is supposed to be with People (you and me) not the President, nor Congress, nor the judges.

Is the Government more trust worthly than the Average Citizen? I suggest to you that history tells us governments are what we should fear... NOT our neighbors.

[WILL]

The 2nd Amendment is all about BALANCE OF POWER... Not protection from your neighbor or random Joe on the street. It is about protecting ourselves from an out of control GOVERNMENT. SO any infringing on that right by the governmernt is a SHIFT in the Balance of Power in favor of the government. Once shifted enough towards the favor of the Government then it can be easily abused. That Power is supposed to be with People (you and me) not the President, nor Congress, nor the judges.

Is the Government more trust worthly than the Average Citizen? I suggest to you that history tells us governments are what we should fear... NOT our neighbors.

I agree. But I still don't want proliferation of those weapons. Do you? For me, it’s kind of like Pandora’s Box. I'd rather it not be opened. CCW, great. AR15 in the trunk, fine. Slung or hip holstered gun while hunting or not in the city, great. Anything more is not the path I'd like to see America on.

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

Will I would rather not see a proliferation of those weapons on the street either... But Pandora's box is already open. The "Military Industrial Complex" with the "approveal" of government developed weapons that we did not want to see developed, then produced made them and now they are out there in MASS quanity and weild by the "Government or Governments". That is one of the Major problems with a "Standing Army". So now we are faced with either having them or face the fact that we no longer hold the "Balance of Power".

Histroy proves over and over that eventually every government turns on its own people, so we will eventually see those weapons will be used against us. And without a means of defense how much blood will flow before the "People" regain control once that happens, that is if the people are able to regain control.

[WILL]

Good conversation, thanks. I will start a separate thread.

[JUSTIFIED]

Will I would rather not see a proliferation of those weapons on the street either... But Pandora's box is already open. The "Military Industrial Complex" with the "approveal" of government developed weapons that we did not want to see developed, then produced made them and now they are out there in MASS quanity and weild by the "Government or Governments". That is one of the Major problems with a "Standing Army". So now we are faced with either having them or face the fact that we no longer hold the "Balance of Power".

Histroy proves over and over that eventually every government turns on its own people, so we will eventually see those weapons will be used against us. And without a means of defense how much blood will flow before the "People" regain control once that happens, that is if the people are able to regain control.

Very good thoughts. It's in keeping with the Madison quote in your signature....which I agree with.