Sheepdog Law Proposal

[610Alpha]

Okay been thinking about this for a law proposal for Federal Concealed/Open Carry.

All Current Active Duty Military, Reserve, and National Guard get a carry license (no class required). All veterans regardless of length of duty can apply for federal carry license but must take approved class (similar to what they do now for states - or be able to "test out" without taking the class).


This would give A WHOLE LOT OF people out there the ability to carry a weapon and would reduce crime rates all over.

Okay so let's hear it?

[SeldomSeenSlim]

A whole lot of people already have the ability to carry weapons if they choose to. There are places folks can't, but that was a decision made by the people that live there. I don't agree with it. Then again it's none of my business. I don't want anyone from across the country telling me what to do, so I'd never support anything to do that to someone else. I think folks should be free to do as they please. Even if I think it's stupid or disagree with it.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I used to think things like this would help and would love to agree with you because I do BUT realistically since fighting for so many rights in this state to get ccw and open carry I have found out that a whole lot of them, even shooters, have it just to "take a stand against the man" and have no interest in actually using one. In fact I have seen it recently even here. At our gun club almost 80% have stated they have a ccw but only around from what I can tell 7-10% actually carry and then only here and there and sometimes.
For many Amercians it soon begins to be problematic and hard to do and pretty soon it gets left in the car or left at the house and then becomes a safe queen. It's just to much trouble to carry that heavy thing and it's uncomfortable and I dont like the clothes I have to wear to conceal it and cops will hassle me over it and my wife doesnt like it when i wear it and my friends think i'm crazy and the store/resteraunt i like doesnt let me carry and blahblahblah.
Nope and waaayyy too many have commented that the gun they carry is too small-too light a caliber-too short ranged-too anything, they arent getting themselves involved, cant win in those conditions, i only carry for this or that reason, i cant handle that kind of stress shooting senario, your just full of bravado because no one ever stands up like that yadayadayada
No judging from what has been said and what I have seen, even here on this board, even in my family, even from firearms instructors and enthusiast who are now more divided than ever because of succesful campaigns, what i know about some of those who sat in that theatre recently and the comments from politicians and reporters who are the only ones making their voices heard this week, even from LEOs who begged for HR218 but still dont carry I dont think it matters.
Nationwide carry just took a huge, probably lethal, blow this week.
Wish it wasnt so negative but reality has bitten me hard about the folks around me this week and developed lockjaw

[610Alpha]

not so many years ago this was common place...to carry a firearm that is.

[xdpatriot]

I'm one of those who has a CHL and carry it all the time. Going to town real quick? I'm throwing a gun in my pocket. The only time I don't carry is at work because they won't allow us. (currently looking for a new job)

As far as the original question, I believe VERY strongly that the second amendment covers the subject federally. I don't think it should be reserved for LO or veterans. I think if you want to carry as a US citizen, you should be able to. The bad guys are gonna carry anyway. Permit or no permit. We have to loosen up the areas where law abiding citizens can carry. When bad guys know a location doesn't allow concealed or open carry, he doesn't have a whole lot to worry about does he. I would just like average citizens the opportunity to defend themselves. It IS a right.

[MustangGal]

The Colorado shooter had no intention of dying himself. He made a post on an adult internet site asking "will you visit me in prison?" He surrendered to police without resistance. If he had thought even 1% of the people in that theater were armed, he would have never done it. He didn't want to die. He chose one of the most liberal cities in CO, knowing they would have strict gun regulations.

I confess I don't have my CC permit, but I am going to get it, and soon. It is a shame I won't be able to carry it to the college I attend, or the school I eventually teach at. :(

I know it sounds crazy, but in each of my classes, I "assess" my classmates as to who I would like to have a permit. I think there should be some criteria for certain people to carry, but I hope it doesn't include the dude talking about how much beer he drank and how much dope he smoked over the weekend!

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

If I am not mistaken like 90% or more of the "Mass" shootings in the last two decades were carried out in "Gun Free" zones

High Schools
Colleges/"Higher Education Areas"
Gun Free areas of Military Bases
Malls and Etc "with No Guns Permited"
Or Cities where carrying is basically banned all together (like DC)

I would love to see the actual numbers.

Anyone have an actual stat or List of mass shootings.

These cowards go to areas where they know their pray is not allowed to "carry"... And I for one would love to someone in mainstream media actually point that fact out.

We should start a protest... Something like we will not shop/spend money in areas we are not allowed to carry (it is just not safe).

[BAK]

What should be done at this point is to try to turn the tide of public opinion on gun rights. Couple of the victims, or their families should team up, get some support from the NRA and other donors and file a law suit against the city of Aurora for stripping them of basic human rights like self defense. Hopefully get the media to switch headlines from "gunman kills 15" to "town denies human rights to residents" or "city purposely disarms populace".
I emailed JWR with the suggestion. Maybe somebody somewhere will get the idea.

[blankstare]

nope, nope, and a resounding no....if it's to be, they got to follow all the rules.

the states are using the chl as a revenue generating device, the constitution says its a right....so what happened?

i carry all the time, everywhere out in the world, to protect my own butt, everybody else need to look out for themselves.

you want to be a hero, better have a really good lawyer on the speed dial, and a whole lotta blank checks

i'm just saying

[Mjollnir]

Okay been thinking about this for a law proposal for Federal Concealed/Open Carry.

All Current Active Duty Military, Reserve, and National Guard get a carry license (no class required). All veterans regardless of length of duty can apply for federal carry license but must take approved class (similar to what they do now for states - or be able to "test out" without taking the class).


This would give A WHOLE LOT OF people out there the ability to carry a weapon and would reduce crime rates all over.

Okay so let's hear it?

I would rather see Constitutional Carry(no permit required) passed across the nation.

[Gonzo]

Why not enforce the existing law? "The Right...shall not be infringed."

Uh, I don't know, somebody change the English language while we weren't looking??


G

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

I would rather see Constitutional Carry(no permit required) passed across the nation.

The Constitution was passed long ago... We just need judges and law enforcement to follow it! And Law Makers to go back and re-read it... Then work on removing all those laws that try to "work around" it!

[lgelin]

"A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."

~George Washington

I think Gonzo has it right too.

[RobertJ]

I am a NRA certified Pistol Instructor and RSO. I also helped teach Basic/advanced concealed cary and tactical handgun. The sad part about CCW is there are a number of people who came through the classes that really did not need to be carying or shooting. I can give example after example and fill the pages here. Im not talking about bad shot placement or what have you Im talking full blown knuckleheads. "THAT GUY" x10000 during the ENTIRE class/classes. They were the ones that were a constant threat to other students (Sweeping, negelent discharges, would not listen to instructors/RSOs etc., and knew it all already) not occasionally but constantly. They were the ones that were removed from class. Dave a lead instructor/owner was LEO training officer as well and he had told us this even happens with students at the academy and are washed out.
Also some of the worst students for advanced concealed cary/tactical handgun were active duty military and LEOs. Not because of their gun firarms handeling etc. but mindset. They are trained a certain way for a reason... LEO is trained (in a condenced version) to not cause civilian loss/damage/or suit to the department or area of operation, the bean counters n lawyers rule the department. Military are traind to kill with ertreame predjudice and civilian loss is an expected outcome, they do this extreamly well but its not defence law acceptable at all. A CCW cilivilanout in a mass shooting enviroment is only allowed to protect their own but and others in trouble and any screw up on their part leads to criminal/civil/etc suit for every round loosed.
There is a drill we used in the advanced class with blue guns for the students to see. We had the students out on the range and told them to act like they were walking around the mall or what have you, note emergency exits cover concealment (all prieveously gone over earlier in training) and had signage on baracades on what was what so the got to look around a bit. we had relitives/spouces and range personell as actors and shooter/s and then started exercise. The shooter came in trrough a door or pulled a concealed weapon started BANG BANG BANGing and other "actors" would start running around screaming and raising arms and hands in the air some would dive immediatly for cover and occupy the space immediately. When drill was over everyone was like "I shot him/her" and we would say throuh that wall of people running around? Yeah was usually the reply. Then we would go back over "Cover/Concealment/acess/dial 911 if needed or possible/leave area and be best witness you can be/ fight. sometimes fight trumps all if you failed your situational awareness and acessment of room/enviroment your in.
I always sit where I can see the whole room and by a door or emergency exit. this is in church, a mall, movie theater , etc. Its a lifestyle.
So no not the best Idea. training is key in everything.
I get so many times at the range. "Boy I would love to shoot grouping like yours" I look at their target and it looks like they hit it with a shotgun. I say you can show me a few rounds down range. thats when they usuall pick up some sort of man pistol 357, 44 , 45. lean way back squint their eyes take long careful aim then flintch like no other as their pulling trigger. I try to show them stance etc will work with them if willing more often then not I get I have been shooting this way all my life. OK, then I quietly walk away they want to shoot good but dont want to learn how to.

[lgelin]

Robertj I see your point. I think what you are talking about is the problem with society in general. People are unwilling to put the work into developing the skills they need. Too many people think they are entitled to everything without working. They also think that because resources are easy to get right now they will always be easy to get. Without discipline things like preparedness, muzzle awareness and financial independence are unattainable. When something happens that damages the fabric of society all these clowns will be s-o-l, but I guess we know this and that is why we are here. Unfortunatley I am unwilling to give up my rights because people won't put in the proper work. In California (where I live) people like to put laws in place to protect us from ourselves. The more laws we put in place to protect us from ourselves the more complacent and soft we become. When something happens that legislation can't prevent, for example Katrina or the 89 earthquake, and we are reduced to basic survival instincts and all hell breaks loose.