Root Cause of Our Problems?

[Cindy]

Secular humanist- the exact ideas your expressing have nothing to do with any of Jesus teachings.

So tell me this Cindy, in your words answering for yourself- who exactly is God?

It sounds like we will forever disagree, but the ideas I am expressing are exactly in line with the words of Jesus as direct quotes in the New Testament. God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Can you reply in a calm manner, without the apparent anger, and explain how those teachings of Jesus allow for Christians to torture others, as one of the most extreme examples? Because it is my clear belief that torture at the hands of those that consider of themselves as Christians plays strongly into the hands of The Darkest One. If you think that cannot be, you do not know much of anything about the ways and agenda of Satan. Such torture is an example and contributing cause of our accelerating decline. Can you explain without attacking by name calling?

[1Admin]

Did Jesus not teach that we are all brothers and sisters?

Funny I read in Scripture "Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated."

Their is no "universal brotherhood of man" BS. And BTW, "we are all God's children" is NOT in the Bible it's some stupid crap another liberal (I think maybe Al Gore?) said.

[1Admin]

Cindy-

Your missing it and trying the "martyr" approach after starting a fight doesn't play here.

I refer you back to this from the rules, the agreement you agreed to upon registering and the "read this first" thread-

*This site is owned by a conservative Christian survivalist that is strong on family values, good character and responsibility. While I appreciate and enjoy a good debate, intentional trouble making won't be tolerated.

[Cindy]

Cindy-

Your missing it and trying the "martyr" approach after starting a fight doesn't play here.

I refer you back to this from the rules, the agreement you agreed to upon registering and the "read this first" thread-

That's okay. I think you've answered all of my questions for yourself personally. You can feel free to block my account if this makes you uncomfortable. Perhaps one or two others will be stimulated to thought and question as a result of our discussion here. And to think that little ol' me can make such trouble by asking Christians to explain their beliefs is interesting. Maybe you will want to delete this whole thread.

BTW, regarding your quote about Jacob and Esau; that is not a teaching from Jesus. It is not really even of the New Testament. It is Paul paraphrasing/quoting Old Testmant Malachi 1:2. The New Testament teachings of Jesus supplant the Old Testament teachings. That is a basic truth of the New Testament, and Christianity.

[1Admin]

Thanks for schooling me Cindy.

Maybe when you reading this later you can reflect on how you started off with the "you aren't a Christian unless your a sissy" tones.

War is War. We have lot of Veterans on this board. I'm sure not all of them wanted to go to war or even agreed with the reasons they were sent to war, but they went. God Bless them for that. And I won't let someone disparage them.

You have missed the context of the whole Sermon on the Mount of which you seem to be basing most of this on.

Your pulling a piece of Scripture and trying to use that to build an entire doctrine instead of looking at the big picture.

My Savior was the One that said to "love one another as I have loved you" (referring to agape love amongst Believers) who also told us to be "wise as serpents but harmless as doves." Why the contrast? Pay attention to the whole message and not just the bit and piece of things you want to use and it may eventually come to you.

Their is a difference between how Believers are to interact AMONGST THEMSELVES and those non believers in the world.

Your pushing a mamsby pamsy hippie version of Jesus as a flower child/make love not war type. No serious study of Scripture would back that up.

Drop it immediately.

[thedreamers]

AMEN..........

[Cindy]

Drop it immediately.

I think I will not follow your orders, as you have no authority, except to block my account.

I do not disparage our soldiers one bit. I disparage the political leaders that send them to war, for no good reason, and I disparage the weasel-like administration attorneys that find justification for torture in the name of peace, freedom and democracy. I am perfectly willing to kill to protect the innocents, but I am just as willing to die to protect them, which is a vital qualifier.

I base my beliefs on the direct teachings of Christ, as carefully analyzed in consideration of many different translations of The Bible. You have no basis for presuming to know what I actually base my beliefs on, because you have no interest in listening.

You presume far too much because you do not take the time to listen. While you claim yourself to be a fundamentalist Christian, you do not understand the teachings of Christ. On this I am sure that we will disagree forever. You can now have the last word - and I will move to a different forum, and you will not need to face challenges to your thinking. This is no loss for me.

[1Admin]

Thanks for that Cindy. I know the last thing I need is "to face challenges to my thinking."

Buh bye! Go spread liberalism and secular humanism elsewhere.

[antishot]

Wow just a bit intense. Never read a post on this forum like that before. Hope its done with.

[SCinPNW]

I second that Wow! This thread took quite an interesting turn. I have a neighbor who is a "secular humanist" and until I met her I had never heard the term--I had to look it up. Anyway, from what I have read about secular humanism and reading the Bible, I will adamantly agree with
1Admin, Jesus was not a humanist.

SC

[Grantmeliberty]

Jesus told His disciples to go and buy a sword if they did not have one to fulfill their pledge to protect Him, when after the last supper they said that they would protect Him with their lives. There is a time to turn the other cheek and a time to defend oneself. In Luke 14 Jesus makes it clear that we must be solid or not to bother starting, ie don't build half a tower.
Jesus also made it clear that His family consisted of those who did the will of the Father,
M't:12:46: While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
M't:12:47: Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
M't:12:48: But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
M't:12:49: And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
M't:12:50: For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

[arcangel911]

Wow...... this was actually a really great question... and I had a decent response...... until now.

I will not quote scripture, since I am not very good at it and I don't like to preach to the choir or people who are smarter than I. I read to bible for the two things that I think that it is....
1.) A bunch of stories about history, language, cultural differences, belief, karma, explanation of where we came from and above all else: How to Get Along with your fellow men and women.
2.) A blueprint of either salvation or destruction. (If you look at the Apocalypse and the four horsemen, it doesn't take much for a large area or areas of people to have things all go to hell. Just one Domino falls and then the rest come naturally)

As for Jesus, Jesus lived in another time. His teachings are immortal and wise. If Jesus was here today, I don't know how he would or wouldn't react, since I am not him nor would like to be him so therefore I will not put words in his mouth. But I do think he would be very, very confused. With the technology, people and celebrities, taxes, and government run amok... I am not too sure how he would react?

[1Admin]

People (term used lightly) like Cindy there have been infiltrating Christianity for decades now. They slowly started sowing the seeds of secular humanism 30 or more years ago. They peddle a soft, almost effeminate Jesus that does not match up with Scripture. They totally overlook the Jesus that's coming in the last book.... If they are here to see that, they would likely never believe it was the Lord coming making .....oh my gosh.... I can't even say it.... WAR!

The same Lord of which the children of Israel sang - "the Lord is a man of war, the Lord is His name!" is the same Lord that showed compassion on the prostitute and wept when Lazarus was dead. But that same Lord rose Lazarus from the dead!

Secular humanists seem to promote "peace at all costs" yet the Lord Himself told us through Isaiah that "there is no peace my Lord sayeth to the wicked." (My emphasis) We read later in the NT that when they say "peace! peace" then "sudden destruction shall come upon them."

Liberals like Cindy want to completely throw out the Old Testament but it's full of all that icky stuff like war, judgement on the nation of Israel (and Egypt and Assyria and Babylon and....) because of the VERY THINGS you all mentioned in this thread: child sacrifice (we call that pro "choice" now), rampant lawlessness, sexual perversion (we call that an 'alternate lifestyle' now), etc. That's why Cindy made the (misguided and untrue) statement that basically all that mattered was the New Testament.

[RobertJ]

WOW...
I left a church I loved years back because of thinking like her's in Enterprise, Alabama. This has brought back some emotion and feelings I have not had in a while. My walk with the lord has not changed and I attend church some what moderately but find the same line of thinking to one degree or another here in the Orlando area as well.
I am so glad I was led to theses forums (a bit hard headed when listening to the lord at times, a bad fault of mine) It seems there are many others that believe in the "WHOLE" bible and not just what suits for their agenda or New Testament only teaching.
Thanks for this board and everyones hard work keeping it here.
I have a new found respect for many of you,even though I have never met any of you that I know of.
Thanks through all of the above mess at least it did me some good in a way.

[MustangGal]

This thread reminds me of a time when I was a teen and my brother wanted to ride home from school with me in my car (which I bought, paid insurance, taxes, and maintence on). Which was fine until he started calling me rude names. He walked the remaining six miles home. You should never pick a fight with the driver. 1Admin is the driver and Cindy is hoofing it.

Thanks for keeping this place sane in an insane world.