Read this:

[Guest]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-i-stopped-worrying-and-learned-to-love-the-ows-protests-20111110

[Bearman202]

A-yup. I think he hit it right on the head.

[Cimarron]

Read it.

First, I would add a disclaimer stating there was offensive language in the article.

What I read was. A left leaning journalist demeaning the right and coming up with another way to justify/redeem this movement, with just a little bit of spin and polish.

He finally comes to his long winded point at the very end:
"People want out of this fiendish system, rigged to inexorably circumvent every hope we have for a more balanced world. They want major changes. I think I understand now that this is what the Occupy movement is all about. It's about dropping out, if only for a moment, and trying something new, the same way that the civil rights movement of the 1960s strived to create a "beloved community" free of racial segregation. Eventually the Occupy movement will need to be specific about how it wants to change the world. But for right now, it just needs to grow. And if it wants to sleep on the streets for a while and not structure itself into a traditional campaign of grassroots organizing, it should. It doesn't need to tell the world what it wants. It is succeeding, for now, just by being something different."

They don't like the rules. They want the rules changed. Now. They have their idea (if one idea could ever be had from such a group as this) their way is better, more "forgiving", less "tyrannical commerce" ...I keep hearing what they don't want. How about what they do want?

Some of our checks and balances are odd or even idiotic. I'm not saying we have a perfect system. But to want to tear it apart and start over seems foolish.

And the author is right on one point. "Eventually the Occupy movement will nedd to be specific about how it wants to change the world", because right now, their movement is chaotic, and that is what it looks like they want.

[Grand58742]

I guess I'm just too slow on the uptake, but I can't even see where he makes a point in all that ranting anywhere. Beyond the point of "bankers suck and are stealing money, cops suck and are beating people without reason, the system sucks and we need something else." There's not really a whole lot more than that beyond a rant about the "system" so to speak.

Okay, so what is the main purpose behind the Occupy movement? There's the core problem to this whole thing. Why are they there and what do they want? You want to protest something? Fine, what are you protesting? You want redistribution of wealth from those who have made money? The whole "redistribution of wealth" thing has been tried. It's called:

Communism

And to quote Wikipedia:

According to communist theory, the only way to abolish capitalist inequalities is to have the proletariat (working class), who collectively constitute the main producer of wealth in society, and who are perpetually exploited and marginalised by the bourgeoisie (wealthy class), to overthrow the capitalist system in a wide-ranging social revolution.

And in the author's own words in that article:

And the economy is run almost entirely by an unaccountable oligarchy in Lower Manhattan that absolutely will not sanction any innovations in banking or debt forgiveness or anything else that might lessen its predatory influence.

and

There have already been hundreds of arrests, which is hundreds more than we ever saw during the years when Wall Street bankers were stealing billions of dollars from retirees and mutual-fund holders and carpenters unions through the mass sales of fraudulent mortgage-backed securities.

Key word there being oligarchy. You read between the lines in that article and you start to see the communist overtones from the author. I can't say he made any more sense than the whole "Occupy" movement does, but that's just me.

[Bull]

I loved the energy and was amazed by the obvious organic appeal of the movement, the way it was growing on its own.

It isn't and hasn't been growing on it's own. It is heavily funded and organized by Soros.

Occupy Wall Street was always about something much bigger than a movement against big banks and modern finance. It's about providing a forum for people to show how tired they are not just of Wall Street, but everything.

Quite right, tired of everything. A bunch of children throwing a temper tantrum about their inability to grasp reality.

If there is such a thing as going on strike from one's own culture, this is it.

Say what? Did anyone notice all those smart phones, designer clothes, tents, and other gadgets? Guess what made those possible.

Just like they did a half-century ago, when the debate over the Vietnam War somehow stopped being about why we were brutally murdering millions of innocent Indochinese civilians and instead became a referendum on bralessness and long hair and flower-child rhetoric, the depraved flacks of the right-wing media have breezily blown off a generation of fraud and corruption and market-perverting bailouts, making the whole debate about the protesters themselves – their hygiene, their "envy" of the rich, their "hypocrisy."

That sentence perfectly illustrates why this person shouldn't be taken seriously.

and every day is the same life-killing chase for money, money and more money

And more of the same again. My 11 year old is more mature and intelligent.

You fail to receive a few past-due notices about a $19 payment you missed on that TV you bought at Circuit City, and next thing you know a collector has filed a judgment against you for $3,000 in fees and interest.

The examples are getting too easy now. It's really quite sad and pathetic isn't it? The guy is so ineffectual that is gives that weak of an example. What really happened there was, Circuit City failed to receive those payments on that TV that you haven't bought. If you had bought it, there would be no more payments. And you only have a TV, because some evil Wall Street bank made it possible for Circuit City to give it to you on credit.

Or maybe you wake up one morning and your car is gone, legally repossessed by Vulture Inc., the debt-buying firm that bought your loan on the Internet from Chase for two cents on the dollar. This is why people hate Wall Street. They hate it because the banks have made life for ordinary people a vicious tightrope act; you slip anywhere along the way, it's 10,000 feet down into a vat of razor blades that you can never climb out of.

I'm 110% for stopping banks from doing this. Then these people can sit around without phones, TVs, Houses, or Cars, and be perfectly happy with the world, because the evil banks aren't making life a vicious tightrope. But wait, banks loan money to companies who make products. So if these people really want to practice what they preach, they need to begin making there own clothing, from organic materials, and growing there own food. Their dope dealer, selling them pot, probably couldn't have gotten the lights and equipment for his pot growing operation if it hadn't been for the banks. So really, the best thing for these people to do, is get serious about their protesting, and set themselves on fire, like the monks did back during the Vietnam War. It would end their miserable lives, make ours a bit more entertaining, and with any luck, the fires would help consume the horrid stench they have created in the park.

We want something different: a different life, with different values, or at least a chance at different values.

Exactly. They want something different. They want change. Change you can believe in to be precise. So they all voted for it. And they put Barack Obama, the person who received more money from Wall Street than anyone else in history, in charge of the country. It must really suck to be so pathetic, so confused, and ineffectual. Children get mad about things they don't like, and they learn how to adapt. But these people can't learn, and come up with any solutions to help their worthless lives, so all they can figure out is that they want something different, and so they follow whoever tells them they'll provide it. Too bad they can't be led somewhere else. "Here you go folks, we've build these nice big shower facilities for you. That's it, go on in there, we'll just close the door behind you. Don't mind that smell."

innovations in banking or debt forgiveness or anything else that might lessen its predatory influence.

I would love to hear of an innovation in debt forgiveness. That is so great. Someone loans you something and you don't pay it back. But somehow, they never stop loaning. That must sound truly sublime to these cretins. One could point out that people who borrow, and have no intention to pay back what they borrowed, is "predatory."

armed cops have been deployed to stand around and surveil and even assault the polite crowds of Occupy protesters.

Polite occupy protestors? Perhaps the banks also repossessed their dictionaries before they had a chance to read them.

These degenerates at the protest, and this moron who wrote the article are proof that we have kept mother nature from doing it's job of killing off the weak and defective members of our species.

[Klayton]

Has anybody else noticed that almost all these protestors are asking for debt forgiveness?

Why is it my responsibility, ONCE AGAIN, to bail out some lazy American who took out a loan for whatever, and later decided they should be able to have it for FREE so taxpayers should pay for it?

[Bull]

Evidently you aren't part of the 99 %. It's really getting old having to deal with this nonsense isn't it? Especially when it costs so much money.

[Bill Spies]

Has anybody else noticed that almost all these protestors are asking for debt forgiveness?

Why is it my responsibility, ONCE AGAIN, to bail out some lazy American who took out a loan for whatever, and later decided they should be able to have it for FREE so taxpayers should pay for it?

...but it was ok to bail out the big bankers?

[1Admin]

And why exactly do you think the gubmint bailed out the banks Bill?

Not saying it was right, any business that doesn't manage it's debt load right should fail. But the real reason the gubmint bailed out the banks was to save (for the time being) the economy. Why else would the FDIC increase the BS deposit guarantee to $200K for a couple year period?

We were EXTREMELY close to having a collapse, mark my words, it will take a while, maybe even a decade, but someone will write about "how close we were" at some point in the future.

The gubmint probably only POSTPONED the collapse, but they bailed out the banks to stave off a full scale collapse, no other reason a socialist president would help business.

[Bill Spies]

But the real reason the gubmint bailed out the banks was to save (for the time being) the economy.

Exactly

Let's see. It's not right for the 'gubmint' to bail out the schmuck for taking the bait that the financial institutions blindly convinced them that they'd actually be able to afford (I'm talking about mortgages, credit cards, various loans, etc) , all the while knowing that they would default at some point. But it's ok to bail out the people who masterminded this scheme in the first place only for them to misappropriate and defalcate the tax dollars designed for the purpose of saving the economy? Is it acceptable to bail out the crook, but not the victim. It's like 'Robin the Hood'. Instead of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, it's the exact opposite.

And just out of curiosity, do you folks listen to (and believe) Fox News?

And another thing. There is always talk about how these protesters are a bunch of un-employed criers. Maybe some are. But I think a large majority of them are students...who are siting in classrooms learning Economics, Political Science, and even Sociology being lectured by doctorates who devoted their lives to their subject and reading books by Karl Marx and Adam Smith. These students are seeing the issue.

[tech]

Read this:

uh...no

Those pukes aren't worth my time.

BTW Bill, NONE of the bailouts are "right"...but if someone was gullible enough to buy into the "you CAN afford the McMansion" line, then they need to buck up and pay what they agreed upon.

Quit the damned whining!

[Grand58742]

Let's see. It's not right for the 'gubmint' to bail out the schmuck for taking the bait that the financial institutions blindly convinced them that they'd actually be able to afford (I'm talking about mortgages, credit cards, various loans, etc) , all the while knowing that they would default at some point. But it's ok to bail out the people who masterminded this scheme in the first place only for them to misappropriate and defalcate the tax dollars designed for the purpose of saving the economy? Is it acceptable to bail out the crook, but not the victim. It's like 'Robin the Hood'. Instead of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, it's the exact opposite.

So are you trying to say it's better for the government to bail out the people who decided to overextend themselves by buying homes they couldn't afford, cars they barely could afford to put gas in and not insure and max out credit cards without eventually having to pay the piper? These people knew what they were getting into when they decided to buy a quarter million dollar house or a $60K Mercedes SUV and the Platinum Visa with a $30K limit. And forgive me for saying it this way, but if they didn't they are stupid. They had to know the money would run out eventually.

Rob the rich and bail out the poor who made themselves that way when they should have known better? Or by choice? My tax dollars to bail out those who decided not to look for a cheaper house or a more efficient car or don't use credit cards? This kind of looks like what you are saying.

And yes, I litsten to and believe Fox News. Far better than MSNBC...the decision is still out on CNN.

[miked2345]

Regarding the OWS protesters who want debt forgiveness.... If I walk onto a car lot, take a car out for a test drive and don't come back, that is stealing. I believe it is wrong. We also have laws which say it is wrong. Likewise, if I take out a loan to buy that car, and then don't make payments on that loan, well, I still regard that as stealing.

Now there are some REALLY NICE cars that I would love to drive, but I know that after a month or two, I would no longer be able to make the payments, so I don't buy those cars! Yet some of these clowns think that their debt should just go away.... no matter that their problems were most likely due to their own bone-headed decisions!

These students who are whining about being thousands in debt and can't find a job.... Did they do ANY research before hand and see if there was a demand for the field they studied? I know a recent college grad with over $50,000 in debt and a degree in "Art History". This person now works at a shoe store.
On the other hand, my son is in his last semester, about to graduate with a degree in Computer Network Security.... and no debt. He picked his field carefully, found one that IS in demand, applied for hundreds of scholarships, and got a few. He also worked several part time jobs to pay for college. So I know college IS possible without a mountain of debt.

[Bull]

mike2345 - It sounds like your kid is one of the few who is mature enough to grasp the purpose of college, and to utilize it for that purpose. That's great.

The gubmint probably only POSTPONED the collapse, but they bailed out the banks to stave off a full scale collapse, no other reason a socialist president would help business.

Every time the government does this, it postpones the inevitable, and makes the inevitable much worse, when it occurs. We keep having bubbles which burst, as the market attempts to correct itself. Then the government interferes to help prevent or lessen the burst. This promotes another bubble, somewhere in the market, which eventually bursts. And the cycle has continued until now. The market has been trying to correct itself, as it needs to. The next bubble to burst is the government. This will be very bad. There is no one to bail out the US government.

But I think a large majority of them are students...who are siting in classrooms learning Economics, Political Science, and even Sociology being lectured by doctorates who devoted their lives to their subject and reading books by Karl Marx and Adam Smith.

I don't think a large majority of students anywhere are "learning" much of anything, especially Economics. The majority are "learning" how to regurgitate the liberal worldview they have been fed. They learn what to think, rather than how to think. If they had the most basic understanding of economics, they would not be chanting that we should "end capitalism," which is clearly the best economic system ever devised in human history.

If the government is bailing out anyone, whether it is an individual, or a corporation, then it is doing the exact opposite of what it was intended, which is to protect our rights against those who would use force to deprive us of them. When it does bailouts, it is no longer defending us against aggressors, but acting as an agent for the aggressors.

[Klayton]

...but it was ok to bail out the big bankers?

Have you ever seen me say that?

Again with the hey if he gets a free ride I want a free ride too...
Sooner or later, somebody has to pick up the tab.