Just curious at this point.

[TyrannyUnleashed]

I am considering moving to the cold white north, North Dakota.

This is due to an opportunity my wife has been given. My first question to her was, "where in ND"? She is not sure yet.

But what I'm trying to find out is what the cost of living may be like? This would include most everything in thinking about survival in a PAW. Also what is the lifestyle of the people living there? Also what are jobs like there? I have checked websites that compare cities, but I do not know where in ND this job is. And maybe most importantly how are the gun laws there? TN. is pretty good (not perfect) for us.

If any of you have lived or are living in ND could you please give me some guidance? By the way if you want to compare, we currently live in the much warmer W. TN. area.

Also for the record, I hate cold weather (:D).

Thanks for any input you can provide.

[Klayton]

Well according to the last video I watched on choice selections for survival, the author states northern states would be preferred because of the milder summers, and the winters are tolerable as long as you stock up on food before winter hits... Too bad I can't talk the wife into allowing me to sell everything and move to Alaska... LOL

[miked2345]

You should find out what part of N.D. and see if there is any housing available first.
There is an "Oil Boom" going on in that state right now... I was watching a news report
on it a few weeks ago, and they were talking about lots of people just packing up and
going there, only to find that there was very little housing available. Some companies
were setting up "crew housing" for their workers - basically dorms with bunk beds.

[TyrannyUnleashed]

good points to consider from both of you. But with my wife's opportunity, we would go and look before we decided. And yes, I hope to know where in ND in the next couple of days.
the oil boom could be a good/bad thing, if it was/is like the Houston area. Cheap housing (if there is any) after it goes bust, but left behind is questionable people.

Oh and by the way Alaska is not out of the question either. It just depends on offers for her.

[Grand58742]

When I was under threat (I considered it a threat lol) of getting stationed in ND, I checked into the housing market. Fair to say anywhere close to a .mil base is going to suck for property prices. Seems like what I can get here in OK or even in West TN costs about a third more up there.

From what I hear, cold followed by cold followed by snow followed by more snow followed by snow drifts followed by spring thaw followed by hot summers followed by cold again.

No trees to speak of (unless you count telephone poles lol), but wide open spaces. You don't hear anything real bad about ND, just the cold and winds.

FWIW, depending on your location, I hear the southern areas are better than the northern parts. Gets a lot better the further south you go.

[protus]

i have family in ND/SD and Minn.


its cold,cold,cold.
lots of flooding ( slow ) aka nature taking back what was once water anyway 10 million years ago or such.


find out where.
i'll see what i can find out for you.



when i was there....all i could think of was dances with wolves( aka rolling plains with grass)

[610Alpha]

there are cost of living calculators out there....i think salary.com has one but don't quote me. Also go to one of those gas prices sites that list the gas prices of local stations. Also take a look and get food prices of local grocery stores online...Wal-Mart does this and Samsclub will give you local store prices of food I am sure other stores do this.

hope this helps.

[WiseOwl]

A friend of mine was stationed at Grand Forks AFB and he said this past winter he experienced -20 degrees.....but he has all the good gear.

He also said that 4 wheelers and snowmobiles are the way to go there!

[brokedownbiker]

My sister lives in north central ND, plan on really harsh winters. She reports winter temp.'s below zero for a fair chunk of the winter. Way too cold for me!

[goatlady]

I lived in South Dakota for 17 years and finally left because of the harsh winter weather plus there is only a 90-day growing season IF you are lucky. No wood available for heat in ND either and constant winds from the North Pole all winter. Flat, flat, cold, cold, loooong winters and from what I have been reading about this oil boom there housing in nonexistant and apartments can run in the $1000s per month with NO long term leases. It would be a real tough area to try to survive in when TSHTF, in fact nigh impossible. YMMV.

[flightorfight]

One of my friends moved to ND for a promotion in his company. First snowstorm the neighbor comes over with his snowblower and clears his walkways and drive since they only moved in the week before. Tells him he better get down to the hardware store and pick up one for himself since they are considered more valuable than a mower in the state. He figures he will just get a shovel since he needs the exercise anyway. Next day they get another 6 inches and he starts shoveling. 4 hours later he throws down the shovel and asks the neighbor to finish till he can get a blower tomorrow. Next day he gets the blower and has another 5 inches to clear. His neighbor comes over and asks him when he is going to do the roof. He says the roof has a good pitch so i dont think i will be up there shoveling snow, neighbor asks him if he knows how much 15 inches of snow weighs.

After the neighbor leaves he figures it was a joke they pull on new people to see if they will actually get up on the roof and shovel. He totally ignores the snow on the roof for a week and then one night he hears a loud creaking and groaning from over head. Snap the trusses break and roof caves in. He calmly picks up the phone calls a roofer to fix the roof, calls a real estate agent to put the house on the market, and calls his boss and quits. He ran back to NC and to this day cusses ND every time he hears someone mention it.

[Not_Yet_Prepped]

One of my friends moved to ND for a promotion in his company. First snowstorm the neighbor comes over with his snowblower and clears his walkways and drive since they only moved in the week before. Tells him he better get down to the hardware store and pick up one for himself since they are considered more valuable than a mower in the state. He figures he will just get a shovel since he needs the exercise anyway. Next day they get another 6 inches and he starts shoveling. 4 hours later he throws down the shovel and asks the neighbor to finish till he can get a blower tomorrow. Next day he gets the blower and has another 5 inches to clear. His neighbor comes over and asks him when he is going to do the roof. He says the roof has a good pitch so i dont think i will be up there shoveling snow, neighbor asks him if he knows how much 15 inches of snow weighs.

After the neighbor leaves he figures it was a joke they pull on new people to see if they will actually get up on the roof and shovel. He totally ignores the snow on the roof for a week and then one night he hears a loud creaking and groaning from over head. Snap the trusses break and roof caves in. He calmly picks up the phone calls a roofer to fix the roof, calls a real estate agent to put the house on the market, and calls his boss and quits. He ran back to NC and to this day cusses ND every time he hears someone mention it.

LOL that is the best story I have ever heard... I bet the neighbors are still telling jokes abou him!

[miked2345]

On the other hand, I think EVERYONE should check out South Dakota at least once... The Badlands, The Blackhills, Needles highway, Mt. Rushmore.... Simply Amazing!

[arcangel911]

On the other hand, I think EVERYONE should check out South Dakota at least once... The Badlands, The Blackhills, Needles highway, Mt. Rushmore.... Simply Amazing!

Um..... been there done that. Been to Wal-drug. Got a speeding ticket... (Just a FYI, the SD state patrol has this BS law, of when going through a "township" the Interstate speed is actually 65, not 75 like it is posted...) Not my cup of tea. Lots of nothing and very quiet, so if it appeals to you...

[1Admin]

Well according to the last video I watched on choice selections for survival, the author states northern states would be preferred because of the milder summers, and the winters are tolerable as long as you stock up on food before winter hits... Too bad I can't talk the wife into allowing me to sell everything and move to Alaska... LOL

Probably like most of the "survival authors" out there now a days, written by someone living in suburbia who's idea of producing heat is adjusting a knob on the wall.... LOL

Hot summers- you sit around a little bit in the afternoon, stay in the shade, drink fluids. Only a moron DIES of the heat.

Freezing cold winters- try sitting around a little bit to warm up ;) A lot of folks with grid dependent heat are going to die off up north if something happens. Doing jumping jacks in the living room to warm up only goes so far.

Other pros and cons-

The amount of time necessary yearly to cut, split and stack the wood needed-

Down South- we get by on just about a cord and a half a year, with a lot of that burned for comfort. We have in the past cut and split that much in a day. Usually I just cut and split a little at a time as extra time permits though.

Up in the Tundra regions- friends not far from the Canadian border that also live this way tell me it's 15 cords or more per year to heat their retreat. That's almost 15 times the work.

With a bunch of young, able bodied people to help, sure. For one or two lone families, much tougher.

Further, it should be obvious that the more wood burnt equals the more smell and smoke. The more wood needed to be cut equals the more sound of chainsaws, the more need for fuel, etc.

Growing season-

It's nothing to hear from friends up north that they are just able to work the ground for cold weather crops while we are just starting to put up our warm weather crops (end of May/first of June'ish).

The Dakotas house a good quantity of missile silos and therefore, nuke targets. Course most people now a days have their heads up their butts regarding nuclear so few current "authors and experts" even mention it. LOL

Pros-

In most cases lower population density- I mean away from the cities.

If you could keep 20-30 (couple years worth, whatever that means for you) cords of wood available and you were in a remote location, winter would be your best ally, in the same manner it became the Russians best ally in 1941 and 1942.

The flip side of that is that the harsh winters could make better MORE desperate and the woodsmoke and cozy survival retreat might be worth losing 4-5 men taking it. I.e, the chances of Joe Joe's looter crew getting "scared off" cause you whacked 3 of them in an attack is pretty slim. The winter would be the rock, your defense would be the hard place, they would be in between and could easily be forced into a situation where they had to fight you to the death to survive.

Just some observations.