Sandbags

[Blowmax10]

So I'm reading Rawles' new book "Survivors: A Novel of the Coming Collapse" I wont spoil it for you but one thing that is talked about is that they want sand bags but cant find any and have to make their own to use to build check points and bunkers

I'd like to stock up on some to have around

anyone know of a cheap way to but them - I found 100 on amazon for $16 but shipping is $12

any of you guys that have been in the military have a ballpark figure how many I should expect to need to be able to fortify my retreat if SHTF?

Also, what kind of bullet stopping power can I really expect from sand bags?

Thanks

[Grand58742]

So I'm reading Rawles' new book "Survivors: A Novel of the Coming Collapse" I wont spoil it for you but one thing that is talked about is that they want sand bags but cant find any and have to make their own to use to build check points and bunkers

I'd like to stock up on some to have around

anyone know of a cheap way to but them - I found 100 on amazon for $16 but shipping is $12

Amazon seems like a decent choice. However, whichever one you buy, I would personally go with the polypro bags. The burlap ones can and will dry rot and don't seem to last quite as long as the polypro. Won't do in the PAW to find your sandbags are starting to fall apart. However, the polypro won't go bad.

any of you guys that have been in the military have a ballpark figure how many I should expect to need to be able to fortify my retreat if SHTF?

Depends on the size of your retreat. You could be looking at upwards of several thousand or more based on the size of the area you want to protect. Our bunker over in Iraq was redone while we were there and we used about 1,500 with it making it two deep on the top and sides and an L shaped doorway leading into it. It wasn't that large...maybe six feet wide and ten foot deep. For a house? I would imagine (depending on the level of protection you are looking for) you could be looking at 10K or more.

And then there is the filling of said thousands of sandbags, getting fill material, turning them right side out (they ship inside out) and tying them off. Not an easy task, but I can guarantee you it will be one of the best workouts you'll ever get lol

Also, what kind of bullet stopping power can I really expect from sand bags?

Again, depending on construction. Standard construction, per Field Manual 5-103 Survivability, frontal cover protection should be three feet of soil to stop small arms fire. As bags are 14 inches wide, you are looking at three rows for effective small arms fire cover. And that's overlapping (alternating the pattern of laying them long ways and then short, etc.) to three deep.

It decreases with less sandbags, but you can count other items as "assistance" if needed (like house walls, additional earth berms, logs, masonry, etc) that offset the effect of small arms.

All in all, if you are attempting to sandbag an entire house, good luck. It's not an easy task and will take more than you imagine. I'm not saying it can't be done, but there are far more effective and easier ways of building up defenses around a house.

http://library.enlisted.info/field-manuals/series-1/FM5_103/CH4.PDF

[tarheelsman71]

I bought 1000 from Uline about 2 years ago and built a decent bunker into the side of a hill as a BOL from our retreat. Shipping wasnt horrible but I dont remember what that was. I just remembered we paid about $400 bucks for the bags, and their website actually had them for 390 today. These are the UV treated type. Didnt really matter to us. We ended up doing an adobe style mix on the side anyway because the only bags they had were white. Now they come in 4 different colors: Yellow, orange, green and white.

[610Alpha]

My plan is to just buy some every year...

The bags themselves do not provide ballistic protection, what you put in them does (not trying to be a smarty pants), there is some difference in ballistic protection properties between sand, dirt, rock, clay (i remember reading about this somewhere but can't remember where)....etc If you can preposition a supply of the material that would prefer to use I would do it now.

Grand-- thanks for the pdf...with that and "the Secure home" i should be able to come up with a good plan.

[brokedownbiker]

If you live in an area that is prone to flooding, or near a river, etc. try contacting your local dike district or try the fire departments, they usually buy in bulk (tens of thousands at a time) and can either point you to the right companies or hook you up directly. My local dike district will give them away to you, up to a certain number, for use in preventing flooding. A place I used to work would get 1000 every year that we were at risk for flooding, the boss would have a truck dump a load of sand in the back end of the parking lot; I spent a lot of time sandbagging around the building during flood season- not counting volunteer time helping reinforce the dikes and homes of the elderly in the area.

[1Admin]

1,500 is a good starting number.


Keep in mind also these won't just be used for building bunkers. Their will be lots of infrastructure you'll want to protect. Some you may figure out now, some not till later.

Walmart in our region carried some bags in the garden centers a few years ago. None of them seemed to sell at $15. per 100 in a box.

We bought a "fair amount" of them on clearance at $8. and later $3. a box of 100.

Yet another time when you see a bargain like that, that "being cheap" means buying a heckuva lot more than you need. We gave 1,000 to some friends up north a couple years later.

Their is other things you can use also, but it's in the think outside the box section of the brain not the analytical part of the brain ;)

[jbman]

Check ot the Box O'Truth for sand stopping power testing http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot7.htm

A couple of their conclusions:

"Sand is a very good barrier. Nothing we shot penetrated more than 6 inches into the sand. Does that mean I would hide behind 6 inches of sand and let someone shoot at me? No way!! I'd rather have 60 feet of sand in front of me."

"And lastly, sand is a good barricade material."

That site has a lot of interesting stuff, you may be there a while :)

Jack

[EX121]

you may be intrested in this website http://www.earthbagstructures.com it's all about buiklding with sandbags.

[610Alpha]

I did a search on this forum for sandbags and I got the following info from a post by 1Admin or LD3.

Sandbags filled with:

Brick, rubble 20"
Clay, dry 40"
Gravel, small crushed 20"
Loam, dry 30"
Sand, dry 20"