When does a survival group get too big?

[arcangel911]

As others wiser than I have mentioned, now is the best time to let them know where they stand and or try to get them more active. You don't want all these problems coming to you during SHTF, you will have more than enough on your plate.

[1Admin]

Their is always going to be people on the "fringes." The ones that don't really attend training half the time, don't do anything to better themselves, don't take their preps seriously or just make no effort to really interact or become a real part of the group.

You can encourage people like that but you can't do it FOR THEM. They have to be motivated enough ON THEIR OWN to make outings. They have to be motivated enough ON THEIR OWN to do things for themselves.

"Dragging" them along doesn't work. "Scaring" them with "the world's gonna end tomorrow" speeches doesn't work. "Punishing" them for not showing up doesn't work.

Be interested in hearing ideas that could/might/did work to bring the "fringe" back into the fold.

[Grinnan Barrett]

@GB - you have a tough situation with the new ones...I might have them read some of the popular books that open peoples eyes (Patriots & One Second After and there are others) as a starting point and then see what they do. If they come and ask questions then that is start if they continue on with their head in the sand are have the hint of "entitlement" on them then I would consider alternatives.

Got to be some way to separate the wheat from the chaff...no pun intended. Like I said before good luck. Your first responsibility is to your own house hold...that comes from the big man upstairs. You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. Talk about Katrina...Nashville floods...Great Depression...Japan. Hope that helps

ONE SECOND AFTER is required reading prior to us even talking to some of these new guys. WE chose it because it handles the issue more from the perspective of the newbie and the unprepared. It is also a much easier read than say Rawles books. If someone doesn't buy into at least that writing then they don't have any commitment at all. Second thing is start their preps. We are not going to force anyone to prep. Just like we are not forced to bring them into one of the sub groups. Commitment is a key word here. You can see in a guy's eyes if he truly buys in to the group or not. We are not looking for people. People tend to come looking for us. It is not that we are all that great or lovable as much as we know what we have to do and go on and do it. WE have also found that we have to constantly change as conditions change. For years we had a retreat set up some distance from our current area. It is just not feasible to use it anymore due to travel distance and the people around the area we have. My family owns a large area that would be ideal for a group but with the area around it being infested with some really strange folks it is no longer a real option for us.

One other thing we look for is the BS artists who are Navy Seals, snipers, CIA agents, etc. they tend to get weeded out really fast. We have a special group we introduce them to. We have looked at options for areas to establish new BOLs in and it is getting tougher with urban sprawl everywhere. WE also have to have some one living there all the time. There are times when dealing with just my family and maybe one other sounds awfully good. GB

[Grinnan Barrett]

[QUOTE=1Admin;27302]Their is always going to be people on the "fringes." The ones that don't really attend training half the time, don't do anything to better themselves, don't take their preps seriously or just make no effort to really interact or become a real part of the group.

You can encourage people like that but you can't do it FOR THEM. They have to be motivated enough ON THEIR OWN to make outings. They have to be motivated enough ON THEIR OWN to do things for themselves.

"Dragging" them along doesn't work. "Scaring" them with "the world's gonna end tomorrow" speeches doesn't work. "Punishing" them for not showing up doesn't work.

One of the things we like to do with a new potential "Member" is to take them on one of our shoots. You learn a lot about a guy or gal when you are cooking out and shooting long range targets. We can shoot up to 500 meters. Watching them eat fajitas made out of Elk or Antelope off a primitive grill is an interesting experience. I learned a lot about my own son in law at one of those shoots. You can cut through the BS very quickly when you put a guy or gal behind a gun they are not familiar with. you get to see how well they take instruction. You get to see how they handle a primitive latrine as their bathroom. We do camp outs as well and those can be a hoot.

As for the guys who are on the fringe we find it is better to cut your loses early and move on. We try to give anyone a chance but after a while it is time to move on. As I said in an earlier post, we give a new guy or gal a copy of ONE SECOND AFTER to read. We want to see how quickly they read it and if they bring it back. We keep 6 copies on hand. each person who reads it must sign the inside cover. It could be Patriots or Lucifer's Hammer or any other book. the main thing is to see if they will follow through. We give them a simple list of things they need for a pocket survival kit. A compass, a lighter, candles, food bars, water container, knife, small first aid kit, etc. After a couple of weeks if they have not brought it back up we do. Where are you on that first project? over half never start.

Some guys just don't get it. They want everything to be fixed in 30 minutes just like a sitcom on TV. One thing I have found with serious survivalists is TV is not a big part of their lives. They like to DO not watch. If they do watch TV it is things related to what we do. I don't even have cable in my house. I have five shortwave radios although there is little on shortwave these days. Sorry to say. I am also sorry to say we just don't have much time for fringe folks and tend to let them go on their way quickly. I guess I am getting too old to mess with those who don't want to even try or want to spend all their time on efforts that are not productive.

[Lowdown3]

One other thing we look for is the BS artists who are Navy Seals, snipers, CIA agents, etc. they tend to get weeded out really fast.

It's always amazing to me how many people try to play this game. I've met more than my share of those types. Often times when it comes down to "put out or shut up" (not a typo, meant to say "out" not "up") they fall apart.

I've always wondered why when you go to a public campout and someone claims to be a super seal, Ranger, etc. that they don't offer to teach anything? Why don't they? Cause they don't want to be called on their BS. If a supposed "ranger" is asked to give a basic class on compass to a group of civies and gets defensive or acts cagey about even doing it, you know your hitting close to home with this.

The interesting thing is people like this assume EVERYONE else is full of crap also, so they tend to not believe those who can and do try to help them.

What does Scripture says about those who humble themselves and those that exalt themselves.

Also, let's be frank here- your trying to steal real honor and glory from a veteran when you play those "I was a Seal, I mean I drove the boats that delivered the Seals, I mean I saw a Seal in a zoo once.." games. That's flipping weak and a dishonor to our real vets. It says a lot about a man's character (lack thereof) when they BS about being a vet.

[claymore]

The original 12, (you called it the core and that is exactly what it is) stays together at the center most BOL. You're the hub; you've got the most preps, the most knowledge, the most talent. Encircling your location is the next ring which is made up of those friends, family, whoever, are most like your core group(in knowledge,talent, equip. ect.). The next ring out has those which are most like those in the first ring. These ripples in the pond keep going out till you use up all the people. Everyone stays in contact with everyone else. Those with the least (in all categories) are on the fringe (but aren't they anyway ?) Someone gets in trouble on the outer ring, he's got help on both sides and his back. Your the core and can go in any direction in about the same amont of time. Your duty is to your family, you duty is then to the core, the cores duty is to each other and then perimeters.

[610Alpha]

ONE SECOND AFTER is required reading prior to us even talking to some of these new guys. WE chose it because it handles the issue more from the perspective of the newbie and the unprepared. It is also a much easier read than say Rawles books. If someone doesn't buy into at least that writing then they don't have any commitment at all. Second thing is start their preps. We are not going to force anyone to prep. Just like we are not forced to bring them into one of the sub groups. Commitment is a key word here. You can see in a guy's eyes if he truly buys in to the group or not. We are not looking for people. People tend to come looking for us. It is not that we are all that great or lovable as much as we know what we have to do and go on and do it.

One other thing we look for is the BS artists who are Navy Seals, snipers, CIA agents, etc. they tend to get weeded out really fast. We have a special group we introduce them to. GB

Sounds like you got a good vetting process...I might also recommend the "After Armageddon" video by History Channel (I think) it can be found on youtube in case you run into some people that aren't into reading. I sent a coworker the links for the youtube showing of it and they were freaked out afterwards...had another coworker read 1 second after and they are looking at things differently too. I share what I know with them and hope they invest the time in learning how to be self-sufficient.

Back to the title of the thread...my answer would be if your thinking this question then its probably too big.

[Grinnan Barrett]

Sounds like you got a good vetting process...I might also recommend the "After Armageddon" video by History Channel (I think) it can be found on youtube in case you run into some people that aren't into reading. I sent a coworker the links for the youtube showing of it and they were freaked out afterwards...had another coworker read 1 second after and they are looking at things differently too. I share what I know with them and hope they invest the time in learning how to be self-sufficient.

Back to the title of the thread...my answer would be if your thinking this question then its probably too big.

It is interesting how many people will weed themselves out over reading a simple book. They sometimes try to BS their way through. For one thing if they don't buy into the fact that something can and will at some point happen then why are they with us? I have to admit I have not seen the After Armageddon Video from History Channel. Can you get it on Hulu or Netflicks? I would like to see it myself? I am having trouble with UTUBE for some reason. Thanks, GB

[Grinnan Barrett]

The original 12, (you called it the core and that is exactly what it is) stays together at the center most BOL. You're the hub; you've got the most preps, the most knowledge, the most talent. Encircling your location is the next ring which is made up of those friends, family, whoever, are most like your core group(in knowledge,talent, equip. ect.). The next ring out has those which are most like those in the first ring. These ripples in the pond keep going out till you use up all the people. Everyone stays in contact with everyone else. Those with the least (in all categories) are on the fringe (but aren't they anyway ?) Someone gets in trouble on the outer ring, he's got help on both sides and his back. Your the core and can go in any direction in about the same amont of time. Your duty is to your family, you duty is then to the core, the cores duty is to each other and then perimeters.

Size of the property is also getting to be a worry for us. If we were all in our Arkansas location it would be no big deal. Up there we have nearly 400 acres with natural springs and 5 gas wells. Problem is we are not there and will not be there.

YOu are absolutely correct about the core group and family. that is where we are focusing on today. One thing I did not mention was that Preparing a piece of property to house that many people is like setting up a trailer park without any income from it. You have to be ready to have a small city move in to your yard so to speak. What we did before was to set up a crude road up and have offshoot sidings for trailers to pull in but not right next to each other. Too much closeness can be a killer for any group. I really like the analogy of rings around the core. We have not done that in the past.

[Grinnan Barrett]

I would be really interested in what your experience with big groups has been.

Not trying to beat this thing to death but do you guys see groups dying out? I think Lowdown3 put it well when he mentioned factionalization and fringe players. In our plans we know that over half our people will not be able to make it if things really go south in the cities. Half will not even get to the BOLs.

My wife and I are looking for a new place right now to replace one of the locations we have had for years. We are going to live full time there. I work out of the house so dish internet is part of the deal for me. She is looking at building an underground home (earth sheltered) with solar and wind power. glad she has the energy to do it.

[610Alpha]

I have to admit I have not seen the After Armageddon Video from History Channel. Can you get it on Hulu or Netflicks? I would like to see it myself? I am having trouble with UTUBE for some reason. Thanks, GB

Couldn't find it on either one of those....but it is on youtube as a 9 part series here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r97xoSOEjM

[Grinnan Barrett]

Couldn't find it on either one of those....but it is on youtube as a 9 part series here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r97xoSOEjM

Just sent link to our guys. Nice presentation. Still watching now. Thanks again, GB