When does a survival group get too big?

[Grinnan Barrett]

This is a question that has come up with the folks I prep with. The core group is right at a dozen members. We are all old friends and trust one another with our lives. The problem we have run into is that the extended group is now way over what we can deal with. We would have to own a trailer park to accommodate all the folks that have come along with us in the last few years. It is not so much the individuals but it is the extended families that come too.

If we just consider our core group and their families we are looking at over 70 people (men, women and children). even with rules about people having the same value sets it is difficult to imagine trying to work with those numbers alone. With all the newcomers we are well into the hundreds now. Anyone beyond the core group is suspect in terms of how prepared they are.

As it is now we are looking at multiple locations for BOLs. It is no longer a group but a confederation of sub groups. If you are part of a group how do you guys organize yours? Just curious. Have a great day and good prepping. GB

[Grand58742]

I would tend to think it gets too big when you cannot feed or properly secure yourselves any longer.

And/or when political, social, or other divisions cause rifts in the group. You will have disagreements, sure, but when groups cannot continue to mutually agree on the important subjects, they tend to fall apart. When you have two distinct camps within the group chances are the disagreements can turn ugly. And two armed camps living in close proximity to each other can cause major issues. Groups over a certain size will have two distinct leaders arise. And if those two cannot work things out, it will cause division and the aforementioned two camps. Eventually one has to go unless you can work together. And there is the quandary.

I think your idea of subgroups that are allied with each other has merit. Gives those that don't have the same opinions as yours to live as they want and still be mutually supporting when the need arises. Geographically separated and can do as they please, but still within range of common support.

Good question.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

"When does a survival group get too big? "
I'm currently dealing with a couple of groups and one in particular has several members that bring nothing more than like minded opinions to the table. They have no skills, are out of shape (and yes i'm keeping in mind that everyone has limitations/handicaps) and very little knowledge beyond internet/book learning. They dont practice skills nor participate when training is conducted. That group is too large because they have deadwood and the inabilty to reconize it. As an outsider I was able to see this from the first hour I spent with them as my judgements were unclouded and my considerations of joining went right out the window.
That might be something to consider, having an outside source evaluate the group.

[Bud]

My survival group is 800+.

Actually, by the time we add extended families who will join us I would expect the number to double.

I live in a very small agbiz community. A number of us agree that things may get pretty bad fairly soon. We are expecting an economic disaster and it may very well be very long term.

So, we have picked a communiuty that is far from any Interstates (20+ miles), isolated from other towns, has a very large capacity grain elevator company in town (3+ million bushels, corn and soybean), nearby (within 3 miles) beef and hog operations, it's own deep wells and a fast moving deep creek on the northern edge of town and only one road, in and out. We have agreed on commonality of calibers (.22lr. 12 ga 9mm and 5.56mm).

Of course, not everybody in town is onboard with this but there is enough of us who are that we don't think there will be any problem in forming a mutual aid agreement.

[610Alpha]

@ GB -- the whole group issue has been talked to death on this forum...GOOD LUCK!!

do a search on this forum and you will find the many discussions about it and the complexity. Don't kid yourself that it will be all hunky dory.


If people that aren't a part of the main group aren't prepping then how does the group plan to feed them? Are the people of the main group responsible for their food as well? I can see a whole lot of problems.

[Grinnan Barrett]

@ GB -- the whole group issue has been talked to death on this forum...GOOD LUCK!!

do a search on this forum and you will find the many discussions about it and the complexity. Don't kid yourself that it will be all hunky dory.


If people that aren't a part of the main group aren't prepping then how does the group plan to feed them? Are the people of the main group responsible for their food as well? I can see a whole lot of problems.

I am sure the discussion has been done over and over here as it has on so many forums. Our core group has been together for nearly 20 years. We are not concerned about that group as much as dealing with all the people brought in through various channels over the past 5 years. If we thought everything would be just fine we would not be asking ourselves the questions we have. thanks for your input. GB

[Grinnan Barrett]

My survival group is 800+.

Actually, by the time we add extended families who will join us I would expect the number to double.

I live in a very small agbiz community. A number of us agree that things may get pretty bad fairly soon. We are expecting an economic disaster and it may very well be very long term.

So, we have picked a communiuty that is far from any Interstates (20+ miles), isolated from other towns, has a very large capacity grain elevator company in town (3+ million bushels, corn and soybean), nearby (within 3 miles) beef and hog operations, it's own deep wells and a fast moving deep creek on the northern edge of town and only one road, in and out. We have agreed on commonality of calibers (.22lr. 12 ga 9mm and 5.56mm).

Of course, not everybody in town is onboard with this but there is enough of us who are that we don't think there will be any problem in forming a mutual aid agreement.

If you can deal with those kind of numbers you are a better person than I am. You are dealing with a small city.

[Benn Gleck]

Grinnan, I don't know which is worse, having too many members as you do or having no one that you can trust enough like I.

[claymore]

Benn I think I know how you feel. It's just my wife and me and she is in really bad health now. Neighbors no good. Anyhow, Grinnan are the original 12 going to the same (or have the same BOL) ?

[Grinnan Barrett]

Benn I think I know how you feel. It's just my wife and me and she is in really bad health now. Neighbors no good. Anyhow, Grinnan are the original 12 going to the same (or have the same BOL) ?

The answer is yes to the original group. We have been friends and survivalist together for a long time. I have to admit ii is a blessing to have really good friends. These guys are not acquaintances, we are more like brothers. If one is in trouble we stick together. I have left my house in the night when one of them is in trouble. We know we can count on each other. When you add in our kids even this group gets rather large. We prep together as well so we know we don't have slackers in this group. Our concern is over the folks who have come along over the years and been on the edges of the group. Right now we are trying to get them together with each other to form other groups that will bug out together. I also wanted to point out that we have been survivalist for many years. Most of our folks hate the forums and stay away. I respect people like Robert Henry and that is the main reason I like to be here. If we can help someone get ready then it makes it worthwhile. If I am here just to blow off about how many preps I have then I need to go away.

Our biggest problem is we have so many newbies that their group dynamics are going to be strained from the get go. We have to see that someone is trying in order to even consider getting them with the others. Going it alone would be really tough. I have three kids all grown and they are all into Survival and family being together when it all come down.

I really feel for both Benn and claymore. Finding men and women who are of like minds and willing to go the the wall with you is a tough thing. I really feel like a very blessed man. If we come across good people you way I hope you don't mind us sending you a note about them. I have seen both your posts and you really seem level headed and up front. Best wishes to you both. If I can ever help please let me know. GOD BLESS. GB

[610Alpha]

@GB - you have a tough situation with the new ones...I might have them read some of the popular books that open peoples eyes (Patriots & One Second After and there are others) as a starting point and then see what they do. If they come and ask questions then that is start if they continue on with their head in the sand are have the hint of "entitlement" on them then I would consider alternatives.

Got to be some way to separate the wheat from the chaff...no pun intended. Like I said before good luck. Your first responsibility is to your own house hold...that comes from the big man upstairs. You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. Talk about Katrina...Nashville floods...Great Depression...Japan. Hope that helps

[Lowdown3]

"When does a survival group get too big? "
I'm currently dealing with a couple of groups and one in particular has several members that bring nothing more than like minded opinions to the table. They have no skills, are out of shape (and yes i'm keeping in mind that everyone has limitations/handicaps) and very little knowledge beyond internet/book learning. They dont practice skills nor participate when training is conducted. That group is too large because they have deadwood and the inabilty to reconize it. As an outsider I was able to see this from the first hour I spent with them as my judgements were unclouded and my considerations of joining went right out the window.
That might be something to consider, having an outside source evaluate the group.

I see that problem a lot more than any others.

[610Alpha]

You may have to take the hard line of "if you don't participate in training or put up some supplies you're out". There has to be some skin in the game so to speak. I use the same analogy when offering FPU at my church...we don't give the class away because there are tooo many who would take the free class and do nothing afterwards....then a couple months later be asking the church for money to pay a light bill. Don't get me wrong I believe in helping the needy just not the lazy.

[Lowdown3]

GB is a smart guy. If he's involved in this you can bet it's not an ad hoc type arrangement.

To the original question-

Sometimes you have to just kinda "close shop" for a while. I.e, no new members for a while.

Better to have 10 "interested" people waiting on the outside than 20 new people even 2 of which are real problems inside. Hopefully that makes sense.

The other problem comes when you bring in a block of people together. If they felt or feel a common bond before joining up, they may become a "power block" to try to push their own agenda. See that happen before also. Two main members quietly disliked each other. One guy brought a couple of new people (both were worthless). The other guy felt like he had to bring someone to the table (new guy he brought proved worthless also). Had you not "seen" or known about the quiet rivalry, you might not have ever been able to "read between the lines" regarding this. Each was looking for more people for their perceived "power block." It happens guys, even amongst good folks.

Kinda surprised a group that large hasn't fractionalized already.

[claymore]

Just getting back to your problem and was so taken aback by you consoling me and our situation that my thoughts from last night don't sound to good right now.