Italy turns to China for help in debt crisis

[Blowmax10]

[quote]Italy

[Klayton]

source

I think I read this in a fiction book once - everyone turning to China for help just before the collapse

And now our own idiot leadership is planning another 450 billion stimulus package because the first three worked so well

Sad thing is it is all a political move to win re-election, he does NOT care for the country.
The house is now controlled by the Republicans, so he will NOT get his 477 billion job stimulus. But he doesn't want it.
He wants to BLAME the Republicans again for his failure, look I tried, but the Republicans voted it down.
It is also an Overton Window, if I ask for 477 Billion and it turns down, next time I will ask for 300 Billion and it won't sound so bad...

I am beyond upset at our current politicians. Democrats (and yes some Republicians) literally buying votes with tax payers' money. Our forefathers would be disgusted. "Don't vote for the Republicans, they want to take away your senior citizen social security check!" Don't worry that you are the one that actually believed the DEMOCRAT buy votes scam, Don't worry it is YOUR fault for a life of bad decisions that all you have to fall back on is social security (which was suppose to aid, not REPLACE retirement investing). Ya thats right blame the bad old Republicans who want to put the SCAM in its place and FIX America. Come on over to the dark side, we have cookies!!!

BAH HUMBUG!!!

[WiseOwl]

Come one over to the dark side, we have cookies!!!

BAH HUMBUG!!!

Are they soft batch? :)

[610Alpha]

its the Kool-Aid you have to watch out for....lol.

[HDM]

Our government is not going to stop as long as we keep playing the same old vote for the other guy game. Drastic action must be taken. But what? I am not calling for a guns and bullets revolution (cause I'm a wimp and I'm afraid some of that bloodshed might be mine;)) but we must do something.
Maybe a tax revolution: cut off the money and put a stop to their power?
Maybe recall everyone from POTUS on down and start over?
What do you think?

[snarlbuckle]

From the looks of it so far, Chuck Norris (aka Rick Perry) is a likely cantidate for office. If either him or Ron Paul gets elected, I'm pretty sure you'll see the size of government reduced. I'm confident that the process will be a painful one and that the approval rating for the next president will be abysmal, but we'll have a smaller government regardless.

On the flipside, I've done some math regarding the federal budget, the economy, etc. Most of my numbers come straight from http://usdebtclock.org/ so you can check them for yourself. In regards to the federal deficit, the major budget items are social security, medicare, and national defense. Two of those are entitlement programs, and if you simply cut them, then the country pays off all its debt in about 10 years. That means we can drastically reduce our taxes. In turn, it makes our goods cheaper to produce and gives us more power in global markets. The US Dollar would be stronger than ever, and we would essentially bend the rest of the world over a table economically. There is another point to note though, entitlement programs have become enormous over the last decade, to the point that they are too big to be sustainable. If people would start working again, you would have more tax revenue and fewer people depending on the government which would go a long way toward improving the budget. Yes, Obama's jobs bill costs $450b. But if it actually works, the budget will be better off for it.

[HDM]

From the looks of it so far, Chuck Norris (aka Rick Perry) is a likely cantidate for office. If either him or Ron Paul gets elected, I'm pretty sure you'll see the size of government reduced. I'm confident that the process will be a painful one and that the approval rating for the next president will be abysmal, but we'll have a smaller government regardless.

On the flipside, I've done some math regarding the federal budget, the economy, etc. Most of my numbers come straight from http://usdebtclock.org/ so you can check them for yourself. In regards to the federal deficit, the major budget items are social security, medicare, and national defense. Two of those are entitlement programs, and if you simply cut them, then the country pays off all its debt in about 10 years. That means we can drastically reduce our taxes. In turn, it makes our goods cheaper to produce and gives us more power in global markets. The US Dollar would be stronger than ever, and we would essentially bend the rest of the world over a table economically. There is another point to note though, entitlement programs have become enormous over the last decade, to the point that they are too big to be sustainable. If people would start working again, you would have more tax revenue and fewer people depending on the government which would go a long way toward improving the budget. Yes, Obama's jobs bill costs $450b. But if it actually works, the budget will be better off for it.

Why would I believe that Obummers jobs bill would work when his stimulus plans have not?

RE eliminating entitlements: What about people who were forced to pay into the system all of their working life and now need the money? Do you tell them tuff luck there's the street?

Reducing the government would be a good thing but it won't help much if the politicians keep playing the same old games. Somehow there needs to be a total transformation in DC.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

"Italy turns to China for help in debt crisis"
The new loan sharks!?

[Klayton]

@snarlbuckle: Ron Paul will never get elected by the Republican party... sorry, his comments, although they may be true, are so "out there" he offends too many conservatives to win enough Republican votes, he actually would have a better chance if he ran as a Democrat...

[Klayton]

@snarlbuckle: medicare out spends medicaid? hmm I would have thought it the other way around, so sick of seeing these freeloaders drive up to my pharmacy drive thru window with their $40,000 cars or $50,000 SUVs and getting 100% of their medications for $0.00 by pulling out their MEDICAID insurance cards. Freaking freeloaders have caused me to quit this job, and move all my hours back to my other job, I can no longer stomach seeing this level of fraud not only on a daily basis, but on an hourly basis. UGGGGG the insanity sends me home every day with a headache (thank GOD for the wife and her soothing "It will be OK honey, all will be reset someday..." oh how that always makes me feel better... :)

[ChemicalGal]

I have a question that I don't think I've seen an answer to.

Ok social security and medicare get dropped we save all that money. But now we are paying out in welfare and medicide instead add in food stamps, housing etc and what have we gained?
I agree we need to do something but for the life of me I can't figure out what
Jo

[snarlbuckle]

Quite honestly, there isn't an easy solution. The simple truth is that people depend on entitlements. Yes, cutting entitlements completely would essentially mean pulling the plug on millions of people. That is exactly the reason it probably won't ever happen.

As for myself though, I would opt out of social security and medicare/medicaid if I could. I'd rather put that money into a retirement account than into a government program that will likely not exist when I'm old enough to use it. I'm relatively young (25), and I know that a lot of my friends would do the same given the choice. It won't fix the problem though, because then the only people in the program will be the ones who don't contribute anything to it. At the end of the day, you're faced with the basic concept of entitlement programs in general: take from the 'rich' (aka anyone who works for a living) and give to the poor. You can think of it like this: When do you stop paying for grandma's medication? Do you cut her off when you can't pay your house payments? What about your own food or medical expenses? Do you put it on a credit card you can't afford the payments on? Do you need a 'death panel' to decide for you? Where is that boundary? Answer that, and you can solve the debt crisis.

[HDM]

Quite honestly, there isn't an easy solution. The simple truth is that people depend on entitlements. Yes, cutting entitlements completely would essentially mean pulling the plug on millions of people. That is exactly the reason it probably won't ever happen.

As for myself though, I would opt out of social security and medicare/medicaid if I could. I'd rather put that money into a retirement account than into a government program that will likely not exist when I'm old enough to use it. I'm relatively young (25), and I know that a lot of my friends would do the same given the choice. It won't fix the problem though, because then the only people in the program will be the ones who don't contribute anything to it. At the end of the day, you're faced with the basic concept of entitlement programs in general: take from the 'rich' (aka anyone who works for a living) and give to the poor. You can think of it like this: When do you stop paying for grandma's medication? Do you cut her off when you can't pay your house payments? What about your own food or medical expenses? Do you put it on a credit card you can't afford the payments on? Do you need a 'death panel' to decide for you? Where is that boundary? Answer that, and you can solve the debt crisis.

You are right there is not an easy answer. It is not something that can be fixed overnight. So I think that we need to phase out the entitlements. Let the ones who have paid in all of there careers get the pay out that they deserve and gradually phase it out. Letting the younger workers opt out is one way to phase it out. However politicians use these programs to buy votes and they are not going to give them up without a fight. That's why I say it is going to take drastic measures. We are going to have to do something to FORCE them to do the right things. So that is my question, what can we do to force them to do the right things?

[snarlbuckle]

So that is my question, what can we do to force them to do the right things?

The structure of our government dictates that we the people can't actually force anything. In fact, our only power is that of electing our officials and prodding them to do what we want. My first answer is simply to participate in your local government and to vote when you can. You'd be surprised how few people actually participate in the political process.

My only other answer is to be vocal about what you believe. Politicians try to monitor the mood of the nation, but they often hear only the loudest voices (which usually happen to be the whiners). So speak up for what you believe in regardless of what it is. Call people out on unethical behavior, maybe it will catch on. Practice your own financial responsibility and be an example, not part of the problem. If enough people behave ethically, hold others accountable for their behavior, and participate in their local politics, then we might see a healthier nation in general.

[eeyore]

source

I think I read this in a fiction book once - everyone turning to China for help just before the collapse ...

you might be thinking of Jerry D. Young's story called Rudy's Preparedness Shop , in a nuclear war is trigger by China buying Frances debt. Interesting how the present follows fiction occasionally