Doomsday preppers show

[Matt In Oklahoma]

@scientia so whats your plan?

[1Admin]

So your saying it would be better with "community" i.e, the idiots in your subdivision that still after decades of warning don't have more than a couple days food in their house, most of which have never worked with their hands in the lives and most of which are on the gubmint teat?

Please expound on YOUR idea of what survival, long term should be.

Also, please answer the "should abandon technological advancements NOW because ONE DAY our logistics will fail for them" idea. I can't seem to grasp your thinking on that. And no that doesn't mean because I have an AE system that I don't know how to use a bow drill (actually teach the basics of that at a lot of public campouts), can't do basic blacksmithing, etc. As far as food goes, we grow about half of what we normally use now as it is. TIME being our biggest detractor from doing more.

It isn't always an "either/or" prospect.

What is your answer to your statement-

You have stuff; you assume others might want to take it; so you have guns to stop them.

Please elaborate on this. Thanks, maybe that will help others understand where you are coming from....

[scientia]

Actually now I'm curious about a few other things. Why does prepping so often seem to be associated with: guns and paramilitary, precious metals, crazy end of civilization theories, and a lot of anti government hostility? I've seen quite a bit of hostility on this forum for particular politicians but I've never seen any rational basis for it. I've seen a lot of people talk about precious metals but again without any real basis; it's just like they picked up these ideas somewhere and now never question them. There is also a lot of talk about guns and paramilitary and no shortage of wild theories about the collapse of this or that. This seems way outside of the mainstream and some people even seem to be proud about how far off of center they are. I find this rather odd because obviously this would tend to scare away most normal people.

See, I associate prepping with things like camping, being energy independent, reducing pollution, saving money, or being prepared for emergencies. These all seem to be good things and things I think most people would identify with.

[scientia]

@scientia so whats your plan?

Could you be more specific?

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Could you be more specific?

I am trying to read everything but it's kinda bouncing all over. I see alot of what you dont like, such as guns and paramilitary which I am (and have experience in collapse and overthrows and war and weapons being needed but we will discuss that later), but what is it you are doing that differs. It's a general question, whats the plan?

[scientia]

most of which are on the gubmint teat?

What government teat would that be?

Please expound on YOUR idea of what survival, long term should be.

Sure, give me the scenario. Long term survival after what?

Also, please answer the "should abandon technological advancements NOW because ONE DAY our logistics will fail for them" idea.

No, I didn't actually say that. In fact, what I did say is that things should benefit you now and getting rid of all of your modern stuff doesn't sound like a benefit. I guess what you talking about is when I asked why someone who actually believes that civilization will completely collapse would base their long term survival strategy on modern technology. Perhaps you can answer that.

I can't seem to grasp your thinking on that. And no that doesn't mean because I have an AE system that I don't know how to use a bow drill (actually teach the basics of that at a lot of public campouts), can't do basic blacksmithing, etc. As far as food goes, we grow about half of what we normally use now as it is. TIME being our biggest detractor from doing more.

Actually, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

It isn't always an "either/or" prospect.

Perhaps you could clarify this. What isn't an either/or prospect?

Please elaborate on this. Thanks, maybe that will help others understand where you are coming from....

Okay, it seems to me that quite a number of survivalists get their ideas from television shows on the SY FY network like Jerrico or Jerimiah or perhaps movies like Mad Max, Soylent Green, or Omega Man or books like False Dawn or Day of the Triffids. Stories like this are very common. I've looked over the short stories here and they seem to follow the same pattern. The problem is that none of these shows or stories are based in reality; the world simply does not work that way. If you are assuming that civilization will collapse and you are using these things as a template then I guarantee that you will miss the mark by several feet.

If a typical disaster occurs then guns really aren't much of a factor. Food, shelter, and medical needs would be vastly more important. Perhaps people here are thinking more in terms of the civil war in Rwanda. If you believe that something like that could occur in the US then you obviously don't understand society or culture. A short term disruption or disaster would not require guns. Secondly, anything long term like ten years is impossible to sustain with a bunker or paramilitary mentality; it simply cannot be done. So, apparently the scenario would be something long term enough that food supplies would run out but not so long that a miltary stance would fail. Wow, that is a very narrow range. Unless you are a really dedicated stocker you'll need fresh food after a year (and after you need fresh food, a military stance is impossible to sustain without a great deal of assistance). And, typical food resources would be exhausted within two years (after this occurs the population would stabilize at sustainable levels so a military stance wouldn't really be a factor). So, this protection scenario would have a lifetime of about six months to two years depending on the time of year when it began. It's hard to imagine needing three guns for every person and 5,000 rounds of ammunition. But also, you would really have to wonder if the roving bands of vigilante's scenario would occur. I don't recall this occuring during the 1845 Irish Potato Famine (1 million dead), or the Russian Famine of 1921 (5 million dead) or the Chinese Famine in 1958 (15 million dead).

[scientia]

I am trying to read everything but it's kinda bouncing all over. I see alot of what you dont like, such as guns and paramilitary which I am (and have experience in collapse and overthrows and war and weapons being needed but we will discuss that later), but what is it you are doing that differs. It's a general question, whats the plan?

I've seen various people on here suggest that they can't talk about prepping in front of most people because they are seen as nuts. I'm suggesting that many of the ideas that go along with prepping are nuts. The top contenders for crazy ideas are:
1.) I need paramilitary training and lots of guns because a revolution/civil war/collapse of government could occur any day now.
2.) I need to buy precious metals to hedge against inflation or because our monetary system will collapse or because it will be a barter economy after the collapse.
3.) I need a bunker to protect me from roving bands of vigilantes or nuclear fallout.

I have nothing against guns; I used to shoot squirrels. A 22 rifle and a 12 guage shotgun should take care of most hunting and defense needs. Farther out west a 30.06 could be useful for some game. Do people actually not comprehend the lethality of a deer slug? It kills humans just as readily as deer. Someone on that show had multiple AR-15's with a forward handle and said that the entire family had been taught to shoot. That is a person that I know with 100% confidence is completely clueless. My assumption is that he chose that gun specifically because it looks military rather than based on any usefulness. I've never heard of anyone hunting with an AR-15. Again, a 30.06 that can kill an elk will kill people just as easily.

If you see someone with a large bowie knife (like Rambo had) or brass knuckle handle then you know that this person is clueless. My favorite knife is my swiss army knife. However, I have a good folding knife with a locking blade and several multi-tools. I have a camp hatchet and an ax. Again, you can kill someone quite easily with a hatchet but gosh it just doesn't have that miltary swagger like a knife with a brass knuckle handle. I have a good tree saw and that is something I am bound to need much more than a knife like this:



Prepping shouldn't be about radical politics, radical paramilitary groups, radical financial ideas, or crazy scenarios like a solar mass ejection in 2012. This is just nuts.

You can start prepping just by making certain that you have a good flashlight and some candles and a way to light them. A propane cooktop is really cheap but you could also use sterno for cooking. You might be tempted to buy large bags of sugar, flour, rice, and beans. However, you can buy the regular size if you protect them from water, mice, and insects. And, then I would suggest rotating them (using the oldest products). That way you'll know if there is a problem and the food is getting ruined. Ideas like this can be useful during a severe snow storm or a power outtage but again could also give you a bit more security if you got laid off from work. Most people would agree with these things. This to me is real prepping.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

augumentitive at best, at worst, just trying to push buttons, either way very little positive outflow. perhaps a change where you demonstrate a needed skill/idea to us as i am way behind in many.
You seem to want to simply squash ideas.. No hunting with the AR? I've taken many deer, hogs and coyotes wit the AR. I love the power and use the slugs quite often as public lands require them around here. I have carried large knives most my life in more places than you can point to on a map and used them for numerous things. Again you just want to argue.
There is a lot of ideas out here. None can say they are totally right nor wrong because we as Americans have never experienced any of it and none know the future. Even the past can not truely show the way because the variables are to great. This forum has never been one sided and believes in being well rounded in all aspects to ensure the best chance. I fall short in many.
I do not read the fiction, though I have nothing against them, their writings are decent enough, my time is simply short right now.
The inability to answer direct questioning leads me to believe the worst. Show me I'm wrong, without argument, lets hear the plan, see the skill, demonstrate the ideas.

[WiseOwl]

If a typical disaster occurs then guns really aren't much of a factor. Food, shelter, and medical needs would be vastly more important. Perhaps people here are thinking more in terms of the civil war in Rwanda. If you believe that something like that could occur in the US then you obviously don't understand society or culture. A short term disruption or disaster would not require guns.

Well there was this one little incident that happened in New Orleans a few years back where....guns....were needed for not only protection from criminals but for securing various important buildings and stores. Did that stop the hoods and thugs....(please see any video or article on what happened in New Orleans)??? Until the National Guard and Army arrived, residents had to fend for themselves.....and thats not because George Bush hates black people as Kanye said.

Food, water, shelter, medical needs and clothing are very important...but not as important as securing those items. Shelter in a sense could secure said items but a "weapon" is needed during any disaster or "survival scenario". Have you ever heard of the term "looter" or "criminal without said items"?


For instance....when the Tornado wrecked havoc on Tuscaloosa it didn't take 3 hours after the storm for folks to start breaking in gas stations and stores "borrowing" what they thought they needed. A few looters were shot on site.
For a good cause no?

I see some of your points but you are way off base man. I don't need to explain that comment, I believe its prevalent in your posts..

[fallout boy]

dont fed the liberal troll--->scientia

[scientia]

perhaps a change where you demonstrate a needed skill/idea

Like what? To be honest, I'm not quite sure what you would consider to be a useful skill.

You seem to want to simply squash ideas.

Like a 2012 solar mass ejection? Absolutely. Like that it is a good idea to buy gold? Definitely.

No hunting with the AR? I've taken many deer, hogs and coyotes wit the AR.

Yes, you can kill these with a 22 long rifle also. But if I actually wanted something to reliably hunt something the size of a man, a bullet only slightly larger than a 22 would not be my choice.

I have carried large knives most my life in more places than you can point to on a map and used them for numerous things.

I've been reading Field and Stream for at thirty years. I don't recall any article ever suggesting that someone needed a large knife. On the other hand I do recall articles talking about how useless large knives are. I would be baffled what you do with your large knife. It's too big for skinning and not large enough chop sapplings. The standard military issue Kbar is not a large knife but it is still a bit large for skinning. Since you think I'm merely being argumentative I would assume you don't read Field and Stream.

There is a lot of ideas out here. None can say they are totally right nor wrong because we as Americans have never experienced any of it and none know the future. Even the past can not truely show the way because the variables are to great. This forum has never been one sided and believes in being well rounded in all aspects to ensure the best chance.

Now that is truly funny. I can see how well rounded this forum is in terms of politics, guns, and various other categories. In several areas this forum is about as radical as it can get. However, in terms of the "anything can happen" line, that is nonsense. I'm extremely certain that there will never be an attack of flesh eating zombies or that we won't be threatened by mutated apes. The notion that the US will dissolve into civil war, that hyper inflation will cause chaos, or that 50 million people will die from a pandemic is only slightly more sane.

The inability to answer direct questioning leads me to believe the worst. Show me I'm wrong, without argument, lets hear the plan, see the skill, demonstrate the ideas.

Could you be more specific? A plan for a flood, a hurricane, a tornado, a power outtage, roving bands of vigilantes, a pandemic that kills half the population in the US? Listen if you have your heart set on the collapse of civilization then don't let any of the facts I give you stand in your way. Prepare for that all you like; it's your life to waste. There will always be radicals who put tons of effort into silly things. I was trying to address the issue of how to talk to normal people so that they don't think you are crazy. Perhaps I am wasting my time.

[scientia]

dont fed the liberal troll--->scientia

So this forum is about politics more than prepping? Then it definitely is a waste of time.

[Lowdown3]

Scientia- slow down bud. Don't wear out your welcome on Day 1.

[Grand58742]

So this forum is about politics more than prepping? Then it definitely is a waste of time.

No, you missed the point and are ignoring the questions posed...

The big question is, what do you consider good prepping or survival skills to have?

You have already poo-pooed the "don't stock up massive amounts of food" theory, but didn't offer any contrary advice on how to sustain yourself after that first year of missing food.

You have poo-pooed the idea of not stockpiling weapons and ammo, but haven't offered any contrary advice as to how to protect oneself.

You poo-poo on the idea of "paramilitary" tactics, but haven't offered a reasonable explanation as to what tactics a person should learn to give them the edge when faced with a hostile party. And this isn't just some SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation, everyday life one could encounter a bad person set of doing bad things. Am I just to talk them out of it and ask pretty please or could I take a "paramilitary" defensive handgun class that gives me the edge over an attacker?

You poo-poo on the idea of buying gold, but haven't said exactly what to buy instead as a long term financial security investment.

In short, you've been argumentative (trolling) and avoiding the hard questions. Here they are, plain and simple:

What kinds of preparedness plans would you suggest as alternatives to what is commonly accepted in the "mainstream?"

What kind of defensive arrangements would you suggest instead of what is commonly accepted in the "mainstream?"

What is a good financial investment for future financial security as opposed to gold or silver?

How much food would you consider to be acceptable in your preparedness mentality?

And how would you store said food long term?

Do you have plans on growing more since the population will supposedly stabilize over 1-2 years? But until that two years is up, can you sustain yourself and how?

Offer contrary opinions, we don't mind. In fact, we would like to hear different ideas as none of us have the perfect plan. However, you've done little more than argue we are all really, really dumb for prepping and obviously get our ideas from watching Red Dawn too many times.

I mean seriously guy, you haven't exactly offered us any other information besides we all suck, carry knives that are too big and are way off base in terms of what we are preparing for.

Answer the questions above, don't be evasive, honestly answer them with direct answers. That might help us to understand what base you are coming from. If not, you are an ignorant troll who wants nothing more than to stir up trouble and I can hope you don't last long.

[Grand58742]

If a typical disaster occurs then guns really aren't much of a factor. Food, shelter, and medical needs would be vastly more important.

I was going to leave this thread, but just couldn't help myself...

There are four cornerstones of modern survival in most trains of thought. Food, water, shelter and security. All interdependent on each other and none more important than the others. Security includes the medical ideas you are speaking of. And yes, firearms are an important tool to have. A tool, not a weapon.

Perhaps people here are thinking more in terms of the civil war in Rwanda. If you believe that something like that could occur in the US then you obviously don't understand society or culture.

And the riots in LA after they won the NBA championship you can understand? The looting in NOLA after Katrina you understood? These things are a "normal" part of society and culture?

But also, you would really have to wonder if the roving bands of vigilante's scenario would occur. I don't recall this occuring during the 1845 Irish Potato Famine (1 million dead), or the Russian Famine of 1921 (5 million dead) or the Chinese Famine in 1958 (15 million dead).

Society which you claim to understand and appreciate is far different than it was then. Back then, people starved, sure, but they also didn't depend on the government for handouts like many in our population do now. Let's imagine for a moment...

Suddenly the government cuts off welfare checks and "entitlement" programs (in which people ain't entitled to nothing, but anyway) and you expect inner cities to just sit up and suddenly say "oh man, I need to gets me a job now!" Nope, they are "gonna get mine" as the saying goes. Some are just waiting for the moment to go out and wreak havoc because they feel they are owed something from someone. They've lived their entire lives under government entitlement programs and have no idea what it means to be responsible and do things for themselves or having a job. Furthermore, why is it the first thing after a disaster people are out looting? Is this the so called society you understand and embrace?

And these aren't racial statements, it's reality as we've seen for the past twenty years during disasters and during normal times which normal people don't go out setting cars on fire or breaking into shops and stealing things all because a sports team won a championship. I'm not a racist, never have been, never will be. But there are segments of the civilization that have decided they are "owed" for something they never have done and never will do and are going to "get theirs."

If you don't agree you obviously don't understand society or culture very well.