There it is! Talk about out in the open!

[Lowdown3]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/03/us-eurogroup-greece-idUSTRE76219J20110703?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+Top+News%29

Euro zone finance ministers have approved a 12 billion euro ($17.4 billion) installment of Greece's bailout, but signaled that the nation must expect significant losses of sovereignty and jobs.

Any commentary from the peanut gallery on this?

Pretty damn brazen to come out and say it wouldn't you say? "must expect significant losses of sovereignty.." WOW!

What was that thing about "no such thing as a free lunch" or something???

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Two words so far...

Minnesota

Florida

More to come I'm sure.

[Metal]

It would'nt surprise me if the IMF made the same offer to Kalifornia and some other states too.

[Irish-Tech]

The frightening thing is that over half of our dept is owed to ourselves (the Fed). What kind of brilliance is that?

[monkeybird]

Is it really a surprise? IMF has long planned to be the nucleus of one united europe. This would be the first step in realizing that goal. One can make the case that a one united europe will want to expand across the Atlantic Ocean. Globalization is not a myth, it's happening right before out eyes. IMHO, it's too late for the U.S. to pull back. The financial tangle makes it impossible for our economy to function. It would fall apart if we tried.

As far as Minnesota and Florida, I have to respect the Legislature and Governor of both states. I'm a Floridian, I voted for Scott, not because I like him, but because is one the less offensive of the candidates. However, I have to admire his courage and his iron will to balance our States budget. It's unfortunate that people have to loose their jobs, but when the bank in empty, cut backs are necessary. Our local school board had a 17 million dollar shortfall. That a lot of money for a small county. No teacher or school employee has been laid off. Non essential services were cut. The school board cut some of the extra curricular programs. Were there complaints? You bet. But at least people are still employed.

Society has become addictive to the 'extras'. Rather than face reality, reciepents of the these extras think of them as essential. The list of extra our government provides are amazing. As I told my husband, give me and some of my like minded friends the power to cut the budget and it would be balanced. Do we really need to fund the Endowment of the Arts, public radio or TV, etc, etc. If congress does not make these choices now, we'll be in Greece's position before too long.

As far as a loss of sovereignty it doesn't surprise me. If I gave you money to pay your bills, and discovered you'd gone to Vagas instead, I'd be demanding control over every dime you spent.

Greece as asked for it. This is the second, or perhaps the third, time the IMF has had to bring them back from the brink of default. The people of Greece had continued to riot over every single cut the Government has tried to make.

Do I think this can happen in the U.S. Absolutely. Our debt is 14 trillion and growing. Congress and the White House continue to play politics along party lines, with the interest of the American People coming in last. Cutting the budget will be difficult. But, considering that we're raising the debt ceiling so we can BORROW MORE MONEY to pay our bills is lunacy!

HE WHO HAS THE GOLD RULES!

[Rmplstlskn]

I think it is impossible to compare the USA to Greece... First, our economic collapse will make Greece look like a bug splat on the windshield. Second, there is no one who could "bail us out," which means repossession. Far different than loss of sovereignty... It means "There's a new boss in town..."

However, never in my lifetime has OUR country been so teetering on the edge of a civil war... When the financial collapse comes (and it will, we are past the point of return), our collateral holders may have to wait until the resulting Civil War II subsides before "moving in." That is how I now see things shaping up...

Rmpl

[barfife]

I think it is impossible to compare the USA to Greece... First, our economic collapse will make Greece look like a bug splat on the windshield. Second, there is no one who could "bail us out," which means repossession. Far different than loss of sovereignty... It means "There's a new boss in town..."

However, never in my lifetime has OUR country been so teetering on the edge of a civil war... When the financial collapse comes (and it will, we are past the point of return), our collateral holders may have to wait until the resulting Civil War II subsides before "moving in." That is how I now see things shaping up...

Rmpl

And that "new boss in town" in Greece will be Germany! Ireland is one step behind Greece. Portugal and Spain just two steps futher back.

The loss of sovereignty means having others rule you, your property and your country. Greece's populace is now being described as "Pre-revolutionary".

Instead of invading a country, you lend it money, impose the lack of sovereignty and then reposess it. I am afraid that we are seeing history repeating itself (ie, WW1 and WW2)! Germany (and China) are accomplishing, with a checkbook and a promisary note, what they never could accomplish with a gun.

And America is directly in their cross hairs while our President, Senate and House are playing "step and fetch it" like the three stooges. God have mercy on our souls (and country). IMHO

[protus]

HE WHO HAS THE GOLD RULES!

He who controls the Spice, controls the universe!

[ThePreparedMom]

There's some substantial food for thought!

[claymore]

Barfife, you nailed it ! Sure hope someone in Washington is reading how you put your thoughts together !

[qrprat77]

What does 'loss of sovereignty' really mean though? Should we expect to see 'micro Germanies' pop up in Greece, ie, German factories run by German labor exporting at no cost to Germany? Should we expect to see Grecian citizens pressed into German service? Will it be something as inoccuous as a cap on wealth attainability in Greece?
Or does it mean more rules on what they can and can't collect taxes on?

[Matt In Oklahoma]

What does 'loss of sovereignty' really mean though?

SILENCE SUBJECT!!
There does that help?

[qrprat77]

LOL!
That's what it made me do,
but seriously.
Do we expect to see that the Greek people will receive such orders willfully.
In otherwords:
Won't they just say "I voted to have the gubbment cake, and dog gone it! I'ma eat it tew!" ?
If they say this, won't this mean 'peacekeepers' and whatnot? Will Greece be 'balkanized'?
From the articles, it sounds like there will be 'forced privitazation' of jobs, et al.
Apparently, I am not up on my Greek Politics, gotta do better on that.

[Bearman202]

My take on the loss of sovereignty is that they will have someone other than Greeks making decisions about the services the people receive from the Govt. The local school board wants to do a. and the "Board of Supervisors" tells them, "No, sorry, you can't do that. You have to do b." They could impact them all the way down to trash collection. You think .gov is a problem now, wait until the people in charge are people from somewhere else that don't give a rip about getting elected next time. At least the current crop of crooks understand that they eventually have to go home. I think that's the only thing that's kept them from passing some anti-gun legislation so far.

[monkeybird]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75T5BL20110630

The Reuters article tell a grim story in Greece. They are SELLING THEIR GOLD TEETH AND JEWELRY to pay for basic essentials.

This reminds me of Germany in the 20's. The people, desperate, leap for a chance to support Hitler and his party. Hunger vs. sovereignty.