Need Help- Blast Door Design

[splat23]

Help!

I am in the process of designing a new home and the wife is on board with a fallout shelter. I've got all of the basic information, but one piece.

I need a blast door. I dont want to use a hatch as it will make it too hard to get stuff in and out.

I've looked all over for blast doors and really dont want to spend $4,000.00 +. Most of the designs are steel plating with concrete poured into them after they are hung.

The concrete work alone for the shelter is going to be around $10,000.00, so anyway I can save money would be great.

Does any one have any designs that I could take to a good welder and have done for cheaper?

Any ideas on would be great. Also, does anyone see a reason why I can't add the blast valves and air stuff after I've been able to save up some more money (post construction)? I can always drill through the concrete, add the vent stuff and reseal.

Any ideas or plans would be appreciated.
Thanks!

[Irish-Tech]

I have been thinking about the doors they have on ships. You know the kinds with screw down locks in about 4 places. Just an idea.

[1Admin]

Steel is pretty high right now so costs can only go so low. A regular looking steel door (with Level 4) ballistic protection runs over $3K right now. The nice thing is it gives people the impression the door is a standard cheapie door versus a "vault" looking door.

Re: Shelters- make every opening you think you will need, then an extra BEFORE you pour. Have a friend that did a concrete shelter and he spent beau cop bucks re working things later when he realized he needed some holes in the walls.

Even if you think now that a chemical toilet "will do"- plan for a septic drain. Ditto on pipes to run coax cable, phone and seismic wires, alternate energy, water in, etc. Obviously you want to conceal these and plan for "defense from inside." I'm gonna leave that part open to thought ;)

Utah Shelter systems used to have available a pre-fab hatch setup. Not sure if they still do.

Do you know that you NEED a blast door and blast valves? How close to the nearest target?

[Klayton]

I "believe" I saw a popular mechanics/science article on how to build a blast door. I would start there. It was a metal frame that you mounted, and once mounted you fill it with concrete then and allow it to cure...

[californiapatriot]

Why do you need a blast door for a fallout shelter? Is this a bomb shelter or a fallout shelter? There is no blast during fallout. Unless you live ina major city, I doubt a blast door is needed.

Thinking about this more: Even if you lived in a major city, a blast shelter is only good if you are IN the shelter during the blast. Most modern scenarios involved no warning what-so-ever if a terrorist were to sneak a bomb in a truck on a suicide mission for example.

what you need is an "L" shaped entry into the fallout shelter. And a more or less sealed room with an air filter to filter out particles. Alpha and beta radiation are easily stopped by simple walls, but gamma radiation penetrates a couple feet earth/concrete. Therefore you need 3 ft of earth minimum on all sides of the shelter, with an entry way that doesn't allow radiation to "shine" straight through a door. Without an "L" shaped entry, you need (i think) 3" of lead to stop that gamma radiation.

Don't forget a waste plan. You'll be down there for 2 weeks min. After which Gamma radiation has lost something like 99% of its potency.

[Klayton]

@californiapatriot: blast doors are also often used to prevent the hungry masses from literally beating their way into your stash. What you stored away to feed a family of four for X number of years is gone in a matter of minutes when the masses get to it...

[californiapatriot]

Good point. For THAT purpose, I had a design that involved a 1" thick or so steel door, that was actuated by a hydralic ram which is operated by an electric pump. The idea was that it would be very secure, but also have literally tons of slow opening force that could push any debris out of the way of the door should it become blocked. Of course a typical inwards opening door doesn't have that problem, but is less secure.

[Foghorn]

I don't know much about the blast door, but I would try to make any openings I needed in the concrete as I built. It will save lots of work or cost later(probably save both).

You might be able to make the rought opening a little large and leave rebar sticking out of the pour so you can splice onto the rebar later to finish the opening without compromising structural strength.

[splat23]

First off, I would like to say thanks to everyone that replied and gave me some ideas and suggestions.

The idea for the room was first a large tornado shelter. When I was giving it some thought, I decided a little extra concrete would make it an excellent fallout room and safe room for the family. I have had the oppurtunity to go to various explosive schools lately and learn even more about their effects. This caused the room to morf into a place capable of defending my family against an intrusion into the home, fallout and if we are capable, protection from a nearby blast.

I am under no illusion based on my training and experience that a nearby blast would most likely result in the total destruction of the shelter. However, I am trying to do the best with the limited resources I have available.

In planning this room, I did take into account water and electrical needs and it will be outfitted with both. I am lucky in that my father-in-law is an electrician and very handy in all matters concerning construciton. In addition, I have a friend who is a certified Engineer and also a SF Engineer. He is going to look over all of my stuff prior to construction.

The problem is that construction of the room leaves almost no money for the NBC filtration system and blast door. That is why I was looking at building a door myself and adding the NBC filteration system at a later date.

However, with all that said, a friend who lives outside the area approached me (yesterday) about building a joint bunker/room on his 17 acres. We are excellent friends and would share the cost. This may allow me to achieve the goal in a safer manner.

I agree that there may be little or no warning prior to an event.

I am simply trying my best with limited resources.

Thank you all so much for all of the help and ideas. I greatly value them all.

Splat.