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  • #16
    Ok, I'm back, here is what I think to the rest of your questions:
    #3 Again, I'm thinking things will be Great Depression like for 7-10 years. That is definately long hall stuff, so be prepared to grow your own food. Its best to start now. Start with 2-3 things you want to grow and give it a try. The first year I planted wheat, I planted the wrong variety in the wrong season and when summer game it all died. Lesson learned. I can't just trow any old seed in the ground.

    #4 When people start panicking, you'll know. You can have some advanced warnings if you understand the significant events that must occur first. When talks about switching the world reserve currency start becoming more prevalent, you know bad things are imminent. If there is any kind of default on the DEBT we owe to foreign nations, then things are about to HTF. If you start hearing the president saying that "capitalism has failed" then things are getting close. When you start hearing talks about America needing a bailout,then things are near. Any talks about switching America to a different currency is likely a bad thing.

    #5I have a BOL but haven't developed it yet. It will eventually be my new home as I will move there permanently. IMO, bugging out is not necessary unless you live ina city, and even then only for the first few weeks/ and possibly months. The problem will not be "them" but "us." Zombies as they are sometimes called. In other words, as people get desperate because they are woefully unprepared, they will start to become violent and will turn on anyone with resources. Look at Katrina. Even what is going on in Egypt, and the rest of the middle east is a glimps into our future. When people are hungry, they get violent and sometimes turn on each other. Riots are an opportunity for criminals. Be prepared to defend what you got. If you live in a BIG city like chicago or New York, you need a place to get away to out of the city. If utilities are shut off in a city, people MUST leave because there will be no clean source of water. Even if its a camping trip for a month, be prepared to get away from the hordes.
    You can tell I'm not preparing for any type of invasion or nuclear attack. Those incidents, while unlikely, would require a different degree and philosophy on prepping. Besides, in that situation you would likely have the US military defending us. In the case of Nuclear attack, the best way to prepare is to MOVE. Move away from any possible targets or big cities. The farther North the better given the overall direction of winds. Basically find a fallout map and move to areas out of the projected fallout zones. In case of invasion, move to areas that are out of the way of the major interstate freeways. Namely the 10, the 40 and the 80.

    #6 Depends on where you live. Wild fires are an ever-present danger. Unless you live in a city, the only way to really protect your "preps" would be a cellar. Something that is completely udnerground not just a basement. This also serves as a shelter from fallout or even a nuclear blast with some additional modifications. Digging is free, and concrete/cinderblock walls can be done over time as money allows. Make sure you know what you are doing though. I've seen some pretty sketchy shelters.
    If, say, SHTF and you cannot get to your preps, or they are wiped out, you need to have a bug out bag with you at all times. You should have one in each vehicle you drive since you rarely are somewhere where your vehicle is not. There is an endless set of reccomendations on Bug out Bags, but I suggest you need 3 days of food and water, a weapon, first aid, a knife, fire starting equipment like a firesteel, and basic cooking equipment in order to make it past day 3. You also need the skills to live off the land if need be. Skills are the most difficult thing to develop. This really IS a worst case scenario.

    #7 My philosophy is that if we didn't need them 200 years ago, then we don't need them now. That is GENERALLY true. Diabetics and other special considerations are an exception. If someone is diabetic, I would suggest putting a lot of time into researching how to make insulin. It must be possible. Of course you would want a stockpile of it for as long as it is good for on the shelf. It needs to be kept cold too, so a refridgeration plan must be part of the stockpiling plan. But otherwise, medication is generally not necessary. It would be beneficial however to have lots of first aid types of preperations. Infection is a killer, and trama wounds are scary without someone who knows what to do. I think there is a youtuber called patriotnurse and she has some really good advice on what to consider for preps, especially for women, who have lots more considerations than men.

    We all tend to think of what to do in worst case scenarios, where we would have to either make everything ourselves, draw from our preps or do without, but it may not be that bad. Women will likely still be able to purchase hygiene products, we will likely still have access to electricity and fuel. However many of us may not be able to afford these things like we can now. In some ways, a depression is worse than total chaos because some people like us might be able to thrive in a world without rule of law, but when there is rule of law, we are limited. For example: without rule of law, I don't ahve to pay my mortgage adn can spend all day providing for my needs. But with rule of law, the bank can still send the sheriff to evict me if I can't pay. That sucks. We need to find a way of living NOW before the S Hits the Fan that will allow us to live despite the S. Even if we don't transition fully to that system yet. Think about the depression: Those who had farms and largely lived off the land didn't really feel the full effect of the depression. They still had food and still lived their lives the same way. They were never really rich, but always made due. They fair the best(other than the bankers who got rich), while ordinary Americans had to stand in bread lines.

    Anyway thanks for reading. take my insight and compare that with your own ideas to form your own plan. God bless.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Lowdown3 View Post
      Mustang- things are bad, without a doubt. Do what you can with what you got. Now is not the time to max out the CC's buying prep goods however. That being said, if your just getting started, it's not time to sit around either.

      You'll find that most folks that seem well prepared have been at this for a long time and have been plugging away a little at a time. I've met VERY FEW people that would be considered "rich" in this movement. I'm certainly not.

      The stuff is NOT going to hit the fan tomorrow. The normal tendency for new people is to freak out. They feel behind the curve and don't kid yourself, they are. But freaking out and thinking that TS is going to HTF tomorrow does NOT help. Constantly telling your spouse that the stuff is about to happen DOES NOT help.

      And of course the people that constantly talk about the stuff hitting the fan but don't ACT on their quote beliefs unquote are a joke to those of us that do prepare but don't constantly cry wolf.

      Like everything in life you need balance. The stuff is NOT going to hit the fan tomorrow but you should prepare never the less.

      Don't sell the couch and dining room set to buy preps, but if your serious, cancelling cable or satellite to free up $50. a month for preps isn't a bad idea. Try to "move" money around in the budget versus going over budget on prepping.

      That and probably the most important thing- PREP CONSISTENTLY. Don't be one of these people that sit around until an item gets scarce and then freak out about it. Get the items that can get scarce ahead of time. That is after all what we are doing when we prepare isn't it?
      Please don't think I am maxing out my CCs or advocating that anyone else does! While we are not completely debt free, we own two homes free and clear (DH's mom lives in one) and have less than $15k in debt and most of that is my car. We have been fortunate and DH has gotten some over time, I worked some (I sub, but it is inconsistant), and we got some unexpected money. The remainder has been carved out of our budget. Certainly we are not rich, but generally we are financially conservative.

      I AM scared, but not panicked like I was at first. Like I said, each prep helps me feel better and we are trying to create a sustainable life style.

      Comment


      • #18
        Wow wow and wow. Thank you everyone for your thoughts, insights, and knowledge. What I wouldn't give to know the definite answers! I'm just afraid that I started preparing too late, that we're not going to be able to store enough food before the dollar crashes, like Californiapatriot mentioned. What happens if I don't get enough food and then it gets to a point where we can't even afford to hardly buy our own food, let alone extra. Ack! The state of the US is really making me want to move somewhere else...

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by MustangGal View Post
          I don't have any answers, but I think the "S" is already hitting the fan, and frankly, I am scared. As a parent, my worst nightmare is not being able to provide for my child. I don't know that TSHTF will be a single catastrophic event like an EMP (I pray it is not), but rather an insidious slide into the cesspool.

          I had to read One Second After as part of my comp II class, or I would still be amongst the sheeple. We are only a few months into becoming prepared, but with each prep I feel better. I am not confident that DH is 100% on-board. Sometimes I feel like he is humoring me, because he knows it makes me feel safer - and his life is better when I am not freaking out! LOL Either way, I am better off than we were a few months ago.

          Q#7 - I hadn't thought about vaccines, other than to make sure we all stay current on tetanus. I wonder if it wouldn't be wise to "plan" a trip to a foreign country and get some of the vaccines that are normally given in third world countries, as that may be our future. I have stockplied OTC medications.
          I think that I have to agree with you. I think crap is already starting to hit the fan. It just makes me wonder how long the fan will be rolling, ya know? How much, how far? etc.

          Just in your reference to the tetanus vaccine -- this particular vaccine seems to prove 100% ineffectiveness. Japan, Netherlands, Australia, the UK and New Zealand medical journals have all reported a 100% failure rate on the tetanus vaccine. The US has not published any studies on this, but I'm pretty sure we would find the same thing (the US seems to keep vaccine information hush hush if it means that one of them might be ineffective). The reason that it's hardly seen in developed countries is because of our knowledge on the importance of cleaning a wound. Soap and other cleaning agents (i.e vinegar, hydrogen peroxide etc.) neutralizes and kills tetanus bacterial spores, so just with that knowledge alone, you can prevent tetanus. Even with deep open wounds, the best thing to do is to continually wash out the wound several times a day until it eventually scabs over. I'm not sure why this particular vaccine isn't effective, but that's just food for thought. So don't fret about this particular vaccine, just know to wash out all of your wounds. : )

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          • #20
            I see that you're in Idaho. Don't worry. Country folk can survive ;) You are in probably one of the best states for when SHTF. I would place a little extra emphasis on firewood, and non-energy ways of chopping and transporting firewood. Other than that, I wish I already lived in Idaho!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by californiapatriot View Post
              I see that you're in Idaho. Don't worry. Country folk can survive ;) You are in probably one of the best states for when SHTF. I would place a little extra emphasis on firewood, and non-energy ways of chopping and transporting firewood. Other than that, I wish I already lived in Idaho!
              That's actually another thing that worries me (add it to the list of many). When we bought our house 4 years ago, we bought it so we could sit on it while building our "dream house". Long story short, our financing fell through on our larger house with acreage and all of our survival amenities due to the housing market crash. So here we are in a small house in a subdivision with no fireplace or wood stove and CCNRs that don't allow us to put one in, and our house is now worth $100k less than what is was worth when we bought it. Major issue here. We're going through plans on how to prepare to keep warm and cook etc during the fall/winter when PHTF. What I think we will do is use our rocket stove in a closed room with a makeshift chimney. We're still working on that plan.

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              • #22
                you could build a wood gas stove. Basically it gasifies the wood and burns the smoke.Much more efficient use of wood. Not really much left over to vent but I'd still use an exhaust to vent any combusted gases outside. Can be used to cook or heat, and can be built on any budget. Build one and test it, and save if for after the stuff hits the fan.
                http://www.knowledgepublications.com...o_training.htm

                I bought my property for 5 thousand dollars. I got 6 acres for that price. I plan to mill my own trees to build my house. I'm doing it on essentially a minimum wage income(ok a little more than that). I plan to be done by next summer. Idaho has some stupid cheap land as well. look around. Even if its just a camping retreat at first its nice to have something you own outright. Dig your own well, do it outhouse style or composting/incinerating style to avoid need for septic. A slow speed lister diesel motor that will run on free fuel(waste veggie oil or even bio diesel, or diesel from plastic like I posted elseware) will provide off grid electricty and last 50 years or more. I reckon 20k after buying the property and using these steps will get you a place in the country, that will provide a better lifestyle than you currently enjoy because there will be no mortgage, no utility bills etc... A minimum wage job and you would live like kings! Well, at least not like dogs. Best of all, you would be nearly SHTF proof. Add some guns to defend yo'self and start a garden. Bam. Better situation than 90% of most preppers, and no transition time once SHTF. I realize this may not work out employment wise, but if you can do it in addition to what you are doing now, then it can be a BOL. Instead of a garden, plant an orchard which requires minimal annual upkeep. If any of this sounds too daunting, just ask me questions. I've pretty much got it all figured out. My problem is simply the distance involved from my current living situation and my BOL. its a 13 hour drive. So I can't exactly swing up there on the weekends to work on my house. So I'm saving all my money this year, investing it in silver hoping to increase that amount, then I'll cash it out next summer and spend the whole summer building my house and drilling my well. Boy I can't wait!
                Last edited by californiapatriot; 06-07-2011, 04:11 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Megan View Post
                  Wow wow and wow. Thank you everyone for your thoughts, insights, and knowledge. What I wouldn't give to know the definite answers! I'm just afraid that I started preparing too late, that we're not going to be able to store enough food before the dollar crashes, like Californiapatriot mentioned. What happens if I don't get enough food and then it gets to a point where we can't even afford to hardly buy our own food, let alone extra. Ack! The state of the US is really making me want to move somewhere else...
                  In the meantime, make your shopping dollar go further by couponing. I look at it like a part time job. You can easily save 40%. If you aren't brand pickey, you can save 60-75%. That Kroger brand of anything will taste great when SHTF and beyond. By combining coupons, you can actually get credit back. You don't have to have everything in 5 gal containers for 20 yrs. Below are some of the sites I use regularly.

                  Flip through the current ❇️ weekly ads and early sales flyers for your favorite grocery stores and retail stores near you.


                  Save big with hundreds of free printable coupons & manufacturer grocery coupons from Coupons.com. Clip coupons online and redeem savings in-store.








                  "It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Great questions all of them. Well I for one see two possible scenarios: economic collapse (FYI China sold off 97% of their US bonds last week, thats a scary sign), and another outbreak (see Europe right now destroying not tons but 100s of tons of food because of the new Ecoli strain that appeared), third distant possibility terrorist take out our electrical grid OR introduce small pox to a contained area (see indoor sporting arena or international airport), finally and this one is very distant fourth massive volcanoe eruptions causing a global die off (this one is going to be hard to survive through **wink**).

                    What do I plan to do? Same as everybody I am sure: PRAY TO GOD to get me through this. Then rely on my preps, my prearranged plans, etc etc etc.

                    How long? Depends on what scenario we are hit with. Electrical grid could be 6 months to 3 years, depends on the type of attack. Economic collapse, that one is so uncertain you can't even guess.
                    Well, sorry to cut thihs short, my class is about to start so I better log off. Let me close with this:

                    Improvise, Adapt, Overcome!
                    You should be so good at thinking OUTSIDE the box your nickname is McGyver!
                    This is what I preached the most about to my students when I was a military instructor and what I now preach the most about to whomever will listen. **wink**
                    That and your preps should keep you alive Megan.

                    Remember to THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX! Something too many of us forget to do. If you are one of those people that say, but that's how we always do it, you might be brainwashed or at a minimum, stuck INSIDE the box.

                    Just my two copper pieces.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by barfife View Post
                      In the meantime, make your shopping dollar go further by couponing. I look at it like a part time job. You can easily save 40%. If you aren't brand pickey, you can save 60-75%. That Kroger brand of anything will taste great when SHTF and beyond. By combining coupons, you can actually get credit back. You don't have to have everything in 5 gal containers for 20 yrs. Below are some of the sites I use regularly.

                      Flip through the current ❇️ weekly ads and early sales flyers for your favorite grocery stores and retail stores near you.


                      Save big with hundreds of free printable coupons & manufacturer grocery coupons from Coupons.com. Clip coupons online and redeem savings in-store.








                      http://www.redplum.com/
                      Another way to save money on groceries...... Check out Aldi's if you have one near you. We did "Taste Testing" dinners at home for several nights, comparing Aldi store brand stuff to name brand. All canned food, with shelf life of at least a few years. Veggies, fruit, soup, tuna, stew, spam, etc.. We only found two items that we didn't care for. I compared prices at 7 different retailers, including Sam's Club. Aldis was the lowest price in almost every case, with Sam's club being lower in a few items.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Item #7 regarding vaccines and antibiotics is the simplest for me. I make my own Colloidal Silver from the directions here: http://www.preventionforever.com/silver.htm
                        It has cleared eye infections in our animals, and in friends, cured Hep B in a co-worker after drinking a cup a day for 8 months (confirmed my liver enzyme tests) healed cuts and burns.
                        I also use Tea Tree Oil for many purposes, and healed myself of Valley Fever inhaling the vapor of drops of tea tree oil put on a pan of water which had been brought to a boil, again a full battery of medical and blood tests confirmed the infection and its clearing, without the use of Difluocon, a horribly toxic, liver damaging antibiotic.
                        Cayenne pepper is also valuable as a wound treatment, even for gunshot wounds.
                        Iodine is a major, falsely maligned friend, and not toxic as some fear. Because cancer, especially breast cancer seems to be preventable, and would be very hard in a survival situation, this site contains much valuable material: http://breastcancerchoices.org/iodine.html
                        Rather than vaccines, I am an advocate for high levels of Vit D3, which I take about 6000 iu daily. Post SHTF, I will be using adequate sun exposure to make my own. This site is a great source of information related to Vit D and health: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/
                        III We are everywhere.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Just take babysteps.
                          Deal with the ones you know happen all the time first.

                          I see your in Idaho.
                          Snow happens.
                          What do you do for a blizzard rolling in?
                          Believe it or not most of the possible scenarios will only vary slightly in execution of the plan.

                          For a blizard:
                          1. You stock up food for an amount of time.
                          2. You stock up provisions, such as firewood, etc.
                          3. You have appropriate clothing.
                          4. You have appropriate shelter.

                          Apply those four to any other scenario and they all work.
                          Take the easy ones first.
                          Snow.
                          Whats the longest you have been snowed in? 2 weeks, a month, 2 months.
                          Start the plan there.
                          Now add to that plan, double it up.
                          Add in another scenario, forest fire.
                          Create fire breaks for your home. Adds to the firewood stores as well.

                          Start simple, keep it simple, and it will compound on itself.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Megan View Post
                            Sorry if these have already been discussed. As I am still pretty new to the forum, I haven't gone through all of the discussions over time. :D And I say "Smartypants'" not out of sarcasm, but for real. You guys are way smarter and more prepared than I am. These are the questions that keep me up at night, because I can't answer them myself.

                            So... Question #1: If you had to make a guess at when all the poop will go down (or up, rather, and hit the fan), when would your best guess be for when that happens? This year? Next year? 2014? Base your guess on whatever knowledge you may have (i.e. economic reports, financial experts, etc)

                            Question #2: HOW will poop go down? Will it be financial collapse (what seems to be an obvious answer)? Or will it be a pandemic? Any other theories? What do you think will be the final straw that breaks the camel's back?

                            Question #3: After poop goes down, how long will it stay down? Is this a forever thing? As in, we're going to have to build from the ground up all over again? How many of you believe in some sort of epic event relating to religion that will "deliver the righteous"? How will life be after this happens? Will we still be living like Little House on the Prairie?

                            Question #4: How do you know when poop has hit the fan? How do you know that it's time to take your bag and flee? How do you know when you're supposed to go to your bug out location?

                            Question #5: How many of you do not have a bug out location, but plan to spend the poopy times where you are now? Or... do you plan to return to where you are now after you have spent "safety" time at your bug out location? Or are you planning on living somewhere else?

                            Question #6: What if part of the poop hitting your fan means that you have to go through some horribly wretched natural disaster that destroy's half, all, or some of your survival/food storage? How would you recover? (This could be many things relating to earthquakes, floods, volcanoes perhaps?, hurricanes) It seems that some really strange things have been going on with weather lately (i.e. the fact that tornadoes are occurring where they are not normally seen, AND the fact that there is no warning for some of these tornadoes. Normally, meteorologists have about a 45 minute time frame before an actual tornado forms from the sky. Many of the ones forming recently have not given any warning at all. It's just *poof* there they are!) so what happens if live somewhere where natural disaster is very infrequent, if not absent by all means, and something out of the ordinary, perhaps almost unexplainable, happens?

                            Question #7: What are your views on medications and vaccinations? Are they essential? Do they not matter (should we rely more on natural herbs instead?)? Some more important than others?

                            I'm new to this site but have been seriously prepping for a couple of years (although the issue has been on my mind for many years).

                            Just my humble two cents, but here goes-

                            #1) It is going down NOW, our economy is getting worse and worse and the rate is accelerating.

                            #2) It is a combination of economic collapse and rampant power grabs by the gov't. The criminals in D.C. are too busy fighting for control to see that the nation is coming apart at the seams while they play their games.

                            #3) It will get as bad as WE allow it to get at the local level. Much like our Founding Fathers did, citizens are going to have to stand and fight to protect each individual community; as each one is secured, it move to the regional level, then to a national level. And some of those struggles will be against the Gov't., not just criminals or mobs.

                            #4) Look around you today- do you feel safe and confident of your neighbors and your community where you are presently? If not, it is time.

                            #5) I'm stuck where I am for a few months still, if things hold out until I reach my goal I'll be in a rural area where I know the people and will have resources to enable long term survival for me and those around me.

                            #6) Hard to plan for the unknown, all you can do is prepare to the best of your abilities and be ready to deal with the inevitable problems that will crop up- versatility and flexibility, the ability to think on your feet is critical in any survival situation.

                            #7) Medical supplies should be part of your prep plan, I figure that there won't be widespread availability of commercial drugs in the near future (or they will be beyond the means for most of us) so I have worked on OTC and natural med.'s as much as possible.


                            It's an ugly, unsettling picture but reality is rarely pretty. Prepare while you still can, YOU are the only one who will be there to insure your future.
                            Brokedownbiker

                            If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Gov't, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin
                            Sam Adams

                            Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
                            John Adams

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                            • #29
                              Sorry, ... Only read a few pages of replies ...

                              Trying to "predict and anticipate" will lead to folly. Old Man Murphy will see to that! Fluid Contingencies. Cover your bases.

                              I started with my ONE day kit ... An ALTOIDS tin that grew to a plastic (dollar) pocket travel-first-aid box (more room) ...
                              ... That kit grew into an all-day MOLLE fanny pack, on a pistol-belt, with carabiners and "key-chain stuff-sacks" (wal-mart), and a 2-qt bladder canteen and a vented hat.

                              ... I then began a 72+ hour kit, complete with an emergency bivy shelter and light-duty versions of all the usual gear ... jerky, almonds, tablets, ranger-straw, one coast-guard bar, etc.

                              Then? ... My 10+ day "open expedition" pack ... Heavier toolage ... more food ... real water pump filters and UV filtering ... radio ... real saw, trauma kit, etc.

                              Finally, trying to get my first (comfortable) month of ready-to-eat, shelter-in-place rations and considering home-security and trusty alliances.

                              Like a Baseball fielder ... hands on your bent knees ... weight forward ... ready to move ... it could come from anywhere ... may take a wild-hop.

                              And ... BTW ... ALL my packs (now) contain the plastic pocket day-kit, just in case I must grab my canteen and scamper ...
                              ... And, that canteen has tablets and (at least one) ranger straw, inside the cover, and is fitted with a courrier strap. Sqwinchers, too!
                              Last edited by Guest; 07-25-2011, 01:51 AM.

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