How many have been or are in Military

[TerryK]

20 years in the Navy in the electronics field. Spent time on destroyers and frigates as well as being stationed overseas and working on FBM subs for 4 years.
I also spent 5 years as a Company Commander (Navy version of a DI) and managed train 13 companies of 84 recruits each.
Retired in 1990.

[50BMG]

AF 10 years, SOCOM AC-130 Gunner. Somalia 3 tours, Bosnia 13 tours, and Hati. Military contractor currently with 9 tours to Iraq / Afghanistan

[Klingon]

"hopefully this clears some of it up for you "

Thanks Matt- yes, it helps me understand better. I have many friends and a few relatives who are Vietnam vets who were unable to successfully reintegrate after their duty there. None of these guys became cops and all of them have had difficulty with work/family/booze/drugs/law etc. That's why I'm interested in the support dynamic and society's widespread failure with vets. Sorry to run off topic and hope this isn't offending anybody.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

[QUOTE=Klingon;17038 Sorry to run off topic and hope this isn't offending anybody.[/QUOTE]
I hope not too. Actually my teen Daughter and i had a conversation on the difference between today and Vietnam Vets this week after a guy in a grocery store thanked me for my service. I told her it is humbling for me because I aint no one special, just a guy who went, did and got paid like everyone else but that I was so glad to see it after being raised by Nam Vets as a Private. Folks dont have to agree with the war but it aint no Soldiers fault. I'm proud of what i done and hope I left a good mark over there and here as well when helping folks while in the Guard. Didnt agree with all our missions but they didnt ask. My skills have served me well and saved lives to included my own several times even after service. It is important to choose the right leaders to make sure the Soldiers are in good missions because they will accomplish them. Troops work for the Civilians
MB hope this is cool talking bout this, not trying to run off with the thread

[monkeybird]

Matt anything you want to talk about is cool. I was a young teenage during Viet Nam. I supported our troops and never protested against anything. But it is my humble but informed opinion 58,168 dead American service men is entirely too high a price to pay for the stupidity of Generals and the ignorance of politicians.

I'm angry about Viet Nam, and I hope Johnston is in a place of suffering. While Eisenhower/Kennedy increase the number of 'advisors' in Viet Nam, Johnston was the one that insisted the war be escalated. There was a 1963 decision by Kennedy to withdraw all troops, however Johnston in is infinite ignorance raised the troop level from 16,000 to 500,000 in just 2 years.

I also know from many Viet Nam vets that the U.S. military high command, knew and encouraged chemical dependence among the troops. The conditions were so abominable that drugs were need to keep the poor G.I. going. I've heard this from high ranking officials and know it to be true.

I despise the waste of both body and soul the Viet Nam left in it's wake. Some of these men came home empty and were never able to get their lives together.

I ask for what?

[Irish-Tech]

Army Reserve 8 years. 51 Bravo. If you know someone who wants to the join the army, tell them no to reserves. The group i was with seriously jaded me to the reserves. I wish i had gone active duty instead.

[rice paddy daddy]

I also know from many Viet Nam vets that the U.S. military high command, knew and encouraged chemical dependence among the troops. The conditions were so abominable that drugs were need to keep the poor G.I. going. I've heard this from high ranking officials and know it to be true.

I despise the waste of both body and soul the Viet Nam left in it's wake. Some of these men came home empty and were never able to get their lives together.

I ask for what?

Monkeybird, after mulling it over for several days, I felt the need to reply.
With all due respect, I can not agree with your statements. Granted, things may have been different in the more secure areas like Saigon or Cam Rahn Bay or Danang, but where I was the incidence of drug use was probably actually much less than the average American college campus. At least based on what I saw during and after my service. And it was marijuana and not heavier drugs.
Yes, officers looked the other way, because for the most part we were good soldiers who did our jobs. Like our fathers who fought in France and "liberated" the occasional bottle of wine.
Yes, Vietnam was difficult, but all war is. To paint us all as some kind of victims is, in my opinion, not only wrong but offensive (to me).
Combat has altered the minds of warriors since the beginning of organized warfare. It is a normal reaction to abnormal circumstances.
I am a proud member of AMVETS, Veterans of Foriegn Wars, American Legion, Vietnam Veterans of America, and The Society Of The Fifth Division and none of us fits the discription of "victim". We are your neighbors, the cop on the beat, lawyers, doctors, loving husbands, fathers and grandfathers,
just average guys. Neither are we somehow special, just guys who answered the call to duty.
I hesitated for days to write this because I did not want it to sound like I was disparaging you, or anyone else.
But I had to reply, in the memory of the 58,200+ names on The Wall. My Brothers and Sisters.

[Klayton]

I see both sides of that coin. As monkeybird stated, there are/were several vets who came back, for a lack of a better term, shell shocked and never recovered.

But as Rice said, some left wing "main stream" media has led most of the younger generations that the government was privately experimenting with drugs on Soldiers without their knowledge. Was that possible? Heck ya, hell they gave them cigarettes in their C-Rations. One of the easiest modes of transmission to spike with "experimental drugs". Did they? Heck if I know, and I won't believe they did until there is rock solid proof.

I despise our current government, and bash it on a regular basis. But to this day I still remember my grandfather crying every memorial day parade. I still remember the back of my head hurting after he slapped it if I didn't get off my butt fast enough when the flag was passing. Patriotism is still in my blood, it is just sad our current administration lacks both Patriotism and American exceptionalism.

Because... THIS IS THE BEST ^&*( COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Because... THIS IS THE BEST ^&*( COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!

OOOH RAH!!

[barfife]

I despise our current government, and bash it on a regular basis. But to this day I still remember my grandfather crying every memorial day parade. I still remember the back of my head hurting after he slapped it if I didn't get off my butt fast enough when the flag was passing. Patriotism is still in my blood, it is just sad our current administration lacks both Patriotism and American exceptionalism.
Because... THIS IS THE BEST ^&*( COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!

I believe in our country, our flag, our constitution, prayer in school, standing for our anthem, shaking the hand of any military person I see and the principles our founding fathers set forth. And if you don't agree, feel free to leave our country at your earliest convienence. Delta is ready when you are over 400 times a day.

[Lowdown3]

May the Lord bless all our vets, thank you guys and gals!

[monkeybird]

Monkeybird, after mulling it over for several days, I felt the need to reply.
With all due respect, I can not agree with your statements. Granted, things may have been different in the more secure areas like Saigon or Cam Rahn Bay or Danang, but where I was the incidence of drug use was probably actually much less than the average American college campus. At least based on what I saw during and after my service. And it was marijuana and not heavier drugs.
Yes, officers looked the other way, because for the most part we were good soldiers who did our jobs. Like our fathers who fought in France and "liberated" the occasional bottle of wine.
Yes, Vietnam was difficult, but all war is. To paint us all as some kind of victims is, in my opinion, not only wrong but offensive (to me).
Combat has altered the minds of warriors since the beginning of organized warfare. It is a normal reaction to abnormal circumstances.
I am a proud member of AMVETS, Veterans of Foriegn Wars, American Legion, Vietnam Veterans of America, and The Society Of The Fifth Division and none of us fits the discription of "victim". We are your neighbors, the cop on the beat, lawyers, doctors, loving husbands, fathers and grandfathers,
just average guys. Neither are we somehow special, just guys who answered the call to duty.
I hesitated for days to write this because I did not want it to sound like I was disparaging you, or anyone else.
But I had to reply, in the memory of the 58,200+ names on The Wall. My Brothers and Sisters.

Rice Patty feel free to voice your opinion, after all, protecting freedom of speech is what most in our military have fought for.

I in no sense of the word, think the issues of the Viet Nam had anything to do with the U.S. Military Men and Women. Nothing. The issues had to do with the running of the war by politicians! The generals were as much to blame for the catastrophe as the politicians. It's like General Powell and General Schwarzkoph said after they become generals. They would never agree to fight a war in which the goal was not all out victory.

Today in Afghanistan, the U.S. Military must follow rules of engagement which in my opinion put them at greater risk, why because the politicians don't want to offend the Afghans. That makes no sense to me. None at all.

The U.S. soldier is not a victim. However, let us not forget that most who served in Viet Nam were drafted.

If it's my statement about illicit drugs you disagree with, I maintain my original opinion. Sorry, it's a matter of research. If you or anyone else thinks that I have somehow disparaged the American soldier - I have not. I apologize if I gave anyone that impression. I love the U.S. Military

[rice paddy daddy]

The U.S. soldier is not a victim. However, let us not forget that most who served in Viet Nam were drafted.

If it's my statement about illicit drugs you disagree with, I maintain my original opinion. Sorry, it's a matter of research. If you or anyone else thinks that I have somehow disparaged the American soldier - I have not. I apologize if I gave anyone that impression. I love the U.S. Military

"There is no difference in drug useage between Vietnam veterans and non-veterans of the same age group." (from a VA study)
2/3 of the service personnel in Vietnam were volunteers
2/3 of the service personnel in WWII were drafted
70% of those killed in Vietnam were volunteers
85% made a successful transition to civilian life
All these facts, and many more, can be found at http://www.ussboston.org/VietnamMyths.html
For too many years people have believed in the bias and lies diseminated by Hollywood and the liberal media.
I do not fault the American public for believing this way, it goes back to Josef Goebbel's big lie theory - tell a lie often enough and the people will begin to believe it.
But those who served, and died, deserve the truth to be known.

[rice paddy daddy]

May the Lord bless all our vets, thank you guys and gals!

I am looking forward to sharing a cup of coffee with you at the next campout.

[Klayton]

Delta is ready when you are over 400 times a day.

Is that a slam on me? hmmmm