Rawls urges "Move to Mountain States"

[monkeybird]

[QUOTE]Move to the Mountain States--The American Redoubt
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Recognizing both the fact that "all politics are local", and the international readership of SurvivalBlog, I naturally de-emphasize politics in my blog. However, a recent article got my blood boiling: Motorists illegally detained at Florida tolls - for using large bills! So, not only are Federal Reserve Notes not redeemable "on demand" for specie, but effectively they are now no longer "...legal tender for all debts public and private." It is often hard to pinpoint a breaking point--the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back"--as impetus for a paradigm shift, but reading that news article was that last straw for me. Consider my paradigm fully shifted. I'm now urging that folks Get Out of Dodge for political reasons--not just for the family preparedness issues that I've previously outlined. There comes a time, after a chain of abuses when good men must take action. We've reached that point, folks!

Voting With Our Feet

I concur that Pastor Chuck Baldwin was right when he "voted with his feet" and moved his family from Florida to Montana. Like Chuck Baldwin I believe that is time for freedom-loving Christians to relocate to something analogous to "Galt's Gulch" on a grand scale.

Ol' Remus of The Woodpile Report recently quoted an essay by economist Giordano Bruno, titled The Return Of Precious Metals And Sound Money. In it, Bruno stated: "If there is anything good to come out of our present predicament, it is that Americans, from average citizens to elected officials, are beginning to understand the reality of coming collapse and are preempting it with measures designed to insulate their communities from the inevitable firestorm. Eventually, as this movement escalates, certain states will come out ahead of the pack, gaining a kind of

[Mikeg175]

It would be a great move if all the survivalist could pack up and move to those locations , but then how would anyone make a living ? It says start an internet business , but also states you wont have internet ? I live on the east coast and I am doing a retreat in the mountains , it will be the Appalachians though . This will leave me close enough to make a living , but far enough ( I hope ) to maintain some distance and be safe . This is a sky is falling post and unfortunately this could hurt a reputation unless something major happens real soon . I also feel that as a 'Prepper' I am supposed to be preparing and not making a final commitment till it is the best option . If I pack up now and head to the hills , I do leave my ( IMO ) pretty good life . I understand the post , but unless something definitive is going to happen in the near future , that I'm totally sure of , I think I will keep prepping and hope I can time my getaway to maximize the life I have now for my family and myself .
I try to be honest as I can , to others and my myself . I like my life and enjoy the extras . If I can have my cake and eat it too , then I feel I should . I am blessed to make a great living that lets me do my prepping and training and still have time to enjoy life . I do not want to abandon this till I am sure in my heart that now is the time . By the end of the summer I should have my mountain retreat up and running . I have my brother willing to live there full time ( great handy man , useless for anything else ) and fix the place up and watch over it . I then am 1 hour from a major city and 2 hours from my house . It is way back off the main roads on a dead end road . You can not see the road or the house or any of the neighbors on any satellite pictures . I do not want to get stuck in suburbia , but I am willing to chance it , I have gear at friends and family and in 2 storage places , so even if I had to leap frog my way , I think I could make it to my retreat in my local mountains .

[Cimarron]

I was asking myself the same thing Monkeybird. Out of all the things the finds the one that "gets his blood boiling" is motorists detained at a toll booth because they might be using counterfeit bills.

Florida was doing this illegally and got caught and it looks like there will be charges pressed. It almost looks like a rant from Rawles against Florida. Does he not like the state?

He does appear to like a specific region of the US though. In many of his writings he mentions the upper Midwest more and benefits. He also writes about all of the preps one should add to a retreat that would add up into the thousands of dollars..All good if you have the money to throw at moving and then adding updates. Many people don't.

[Lowdown3]

Having a retreat anywhere isn't easy or cheap.

Almost everyone I've run into that has dedicated themselves to a specific area- and when you do all the work to set up and secure a retreat you do "dedicate" yourself to a large degree- has felt like "their area" is the best choice, hands down.

I find myself slipping into that also. :)

Some criteria for a good retreat area are crystal clear, and only a retard who has not really thought through things would argue that being in an area of HIGH population density is a good thing. More people=more problems. Anyone who believes otherwise is either a huge PollyAnna or a bleeding heart liberal.

That being said, their are malcontents in the country, yes without a doubt. However their are considerably LESS of them and 99% of the time, everyone KNOWS they are malcontents.... Not always the case in the city. How many times do you see the TV cameras interviewing some neighbors of some ba$tard that hurt a child, or someone who had human heads in their freezer or something, what does the neighbors ALWAYS SAY- "Mr. Smith was a nice older fellow that kept to himself, we never knew he had bodies in his freezer."

Is their an "ideal" retreat area? Perhaps, perhaps not.

Will everyone moving to a specific area of the country help? Perhaps, perhaps not.

Should you move your family out of the city and high population density if you are truly concerned and serious about your survival? WITHOUT A DOUBT.

No single move- other than gaining your Salvation- will do more to better your survival chances IMO.

[Rmplstlskn]

My concern about "western mountain States" is FOOD GARDENING and HEATING...

I live in mid-western VA (piedmont area) and we just got hit by an out of nowhere snow fall and frigid temperatures... just as our gardens were planted and had tender young shoots coming up... Yet those down south already have crops well on their way to maturity. Our peach industry is sweating blood & tears hoping the cold doesn't destroy most of the tender buds that will turn into peaches in the fall. Basically, we are at the mercy of cold weather...

Granted, I love the 4 seasons and the lack of brutal humidity and heat as when I lived in South Florida for decades past, let alone the hurricanes, yet the 'NORTH" has its pitfalls as well. And it seems the western mountain states is even worse with snow and low temps than here in VA. And Idaho and Montana are NOT known as food garden meccas... For WHEAT and POTATOES, yes, but fruits and veggies, no...

Then we have heating... I use #2 oil (diesel) in a boiler for heat via radiant, slant-fin radiators along the floorboards. It is wonderful heat but it is OIL based, and that is expensive right now... So is natural gas... And a COLD house in the winter is not much fun...

So I have those two primary concerns about moving to a western, mountain State... Maybe those out there now could address this?

Rmpl

[Lowdown3]

Growing season and heating requirements are essentially why we don't live up north also.

I truly believe that FAMINE is going to be a big problem. Really if you look at it, no matter what large scale breakdown we envision, interruption(s) of the food distribution system WILL happen.

Rmp- got your email but I can see the problem worked out, thanks. :)

[Knobster]

I was also a bit surprised by Mr. Rawles' post. He doesn't strike me as a Chicken Little but this post seemed to be his 'Get Out of Dodge' warning. I am not currently in a position to sell everything and make the move West. With a wife, three young children, good-paying job, all-in-all decent life, I'm not about to pull up stakes. I'm searching for my own ~10 acres in the local area in which to start slowly but surely acheiving a more self-sufficient life style.
Maybe if I had a million bucks in the bank and a small army of like-minded individuals would I consider such drastic changes...

Dunno, for some reason this news article really hit a nerve with him.

[Rmplstlskn]

Dunno, for some reason this news article really hit a nerve with him.

I think it was more like a LEVEE that let loose... Everyone has this BUILDING PRESSURE upon us as we see things getting progressively worse rather than better, no matter who we elect, and i think that FRU issue in Florida was his last PSI of pressure upon his levee and it broke with that warning... I think his line in the sand is understandable... It gives people time to get their affairs in order and arrange a move (3 months to a year time frame). It takes a functioning economy to sell house and land...

I'm just not sold on the "western mountain States" part of it... Maybe this would be a good topic: What States are the BEST for a survivalist?

Rmpl

[Rmplstlskn]

I truly believe that FAMINE is going to be a big problem. Really if you look at it, no matter what large scale breakdown we envision, interruption(s) of the food distribution system WILL happen.

I agree as well... And you also have another second witness: Scripture also tells us of famine to come...

Rmpl

[buttebob]

Rawls likes the northern Rocky Mountains because the population is low. He considers northern Idaho and north western Montana the banana belt of these two states.
I spent 16 years in Montana and it never got colder than 43 below in that time. My house was 2500 sq ft with a 700 sq ft heated basement and was over 100 years old and wasn't well insulated. I was on budget billing with the utility co. and my bill was $345 a month. Without budget billing it would be over $700 for the coldest month in the winter.
I've watched the 4th of July parade in Butte in the snow. It is possible for it to snow every day of the year. It may be 70 degrees one day and snow the next. In my 16 years there I've witnessed it snow on every day of the year.
People grow vegetables in Montana, but I think the growing season in Butte is 60 days. Maybe. Plus the soil in Butte stinks. Research if you think you may want to move there. From Bozeman west to Whitehal, about 60 miles is mostly flat valley. Butte is mostly on the side of a hill. My house was at 5400 ft. As is the court house and most of the town.
If your car breaks down on the side of the road in the country and it's summer someone may stop to help you. If it's winter they will stop to help.
A few yeaars ago there was an article in the Butte paper about Butteand Montana and the people. It said that the people in Montana weren't to keen on having people move in from out of state and changing their lives. Butte on the other hand didn't care much for anybody except other people from Butte. In Butte they identify themselves as Butte, America not Butte, Montana. I love those people from Butte.
Montana is the fourth largest state and has less than 1,000,000 people. I've driven in places were I didn't see a house for 25-30 miles and that was in the southwestern part of the state in the eastern part it wouldn't surprise me if you couldn't drive 100 miles without seeing a house.
When I moved to Montana in 1994 my middle son was already there attending Montana State. My wife, my youngest son and my mother came with me. Within a year my oldest son came out. My two daugthers lived in the SE and couldn't stand the cold. About 7 yrs ago my middle son moved back to the SE coast. He loves the beach. My oldest son died 6 yrs ago. My mother died 2 yrs ago. My wife grew tried of the cold and she never really fit in Montana like I did. My hip had beeen bothering me for several yrs and I couldn't climb those mountains looking for elk. I now had 3 kids in the SE. Times are looking bad. And my oldest daughter, who makes a great deal of money, made me an offer I couldn't refuse. So here I am back in the SE. Downwind of several nuclear power plants. Living in a county with 7 times the population of the county I use to live in, or 1/4 the population of the whole state of Montana.
The best place for a survival retreat would be Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. Low population. No nuclear reactors. Far from any large population centers.

[Rmplstlskn]

I spent 16 years in Montana and it never got colder than 43 below in that time.
<snip>
The best place for a survival retreat would be Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. Low population. No nuclear reactors. Far from any large population centers.

43 BELOW!!!! That is far too cold for me... The occasional 5 degrees here in VA is too pushig it... Let alone a 60-day growing season... I don't see how anyone could survive long-term in that environment on just meat and wheat...

Rmpl

[buttebob]

I talked to a guy in Belgrade ( a small town outside Bozeman) about the weather and he told me that back in the '70's the tempature got down to 70 below. It got so cold that the engine block in his truck cracked. When it gets that cold you have to drain the 90 wt grease out of your read end and replace it with 5 or 10 st oil or it wouldn't turn.

There was a guy I would see walking down the streets in Butte when it was 20 below that would only be wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Not once but every time I saw him. That's all I saw him wear all year long.

[buttebob]

Every Sat. during the summer there's a farmers market in Butte, and in most towns in Montana, there are plenty of fresh vegetables for sale. The Hutterites always have many vegetables and fresh eggs and chickens.
I had no problem adjusting to the cold. You just need the right clothes.
But, I don't think the cost of living is low.
If you're use to service stations having gas wars you wont find them in Montana. There's a state law forbidding them. The law makers didn't want large gas retailers putting mom and pop retailers out of business. Buy your gas in the larger town. If you get it in one of those many small towns of 100 to 2000 people you could pay an extra 10-15 cents a gal.
There's no place like Montana. Driving down the Interstate and having to slow down for Big Horn sheep or moose or pronghorn.

[Lowdown3]

And what's always got me about those states is that when you do see land for sale like on Rawles spin off site, United Country, etc. it's NEVER CHEAP.

Cold as hades, short growing season, high cost of living, expensive land, proximity to major nuclear targets.

Low population density is the only plus I personally see in these areas.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Don't care, I'm either gonna make it here or die here. I'm resolved and at peace, this is my home and I didnt make it thru 20+ to run fraidy cat to the mountain!