Purchases - Prepping vs Survivalism Thoughts

[Matt In Oklahoma]

This aint gonna be one of them IMHO posts it's gonna be a say it make some folks mad :mad:or hopefully think :confused:posts!
I read alot of posts and blogs sometimes. I also post alot of stuff and I really enjoy seeing others and what they are doing and the interaction however I see some things that make me wonder. There are posts in where "Preppers" might buy 20 shampoos that were on sale as their "prep". While this is great and I like to save money as much as the next person, I do not believe it is a "prep" as much as just saving money. It could be looked as a "prep" as it could untie funds to make other purchases but only if it is used for that.
My "preps" are geared towards me "surviving" an short term event, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, PAW, BUG, an attack on my well being or whatever. In SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, PAW, Solar Flares or a Weather Related event I want to LIVE. To LIVE you need water, food, air and shelter. Lets say a tornado, firestorm, earthquake, hurricane or insert your local events here_ _ _ _ happens you will most likely lose power and or water/food supply, that's what makes them bad to begin with. This may be for as much as 3 months as repairs are being made. During that time I will need large amounts of water, as in barrels/jugs full, and maybe fuel for a generator and I may also incur extra expense to buy more fuel or other stuff possibly at gouged prices to continue to live because I can't store that much in my current situation and other things arise such as repair material. I will also need to obtain water with the empties and maybe keep extra spare tires or patch kits to drive through the ruble. I can't sneak around like I would in a post SHTF event after a weather event and stealthily steal the neighbors water from his pond to put in that gazillion dollar shiny filter because if I am seen, pre SHTF even during an event, I would still face charges such as trespassing, stealing and even livestock harm charges. Maybe, just maybe, he might let me take some if I asked first but that's never a certainty so stored supplies is still the way to go.
The $30 spent on shampoo would be better placed in water containers, fuel stored, food etc. The shampoo will not help me live. I have LIVED for as much a 23 days without a bath and I'm sure there are others who have shared this experience as well. You need to wash to keep germs down as you ingest/prepare food and if you are performing medical duties the same applies. Still no shampoo needed.
You can replace the word "shampoo" with a number of things the bottom line is get what is needed and then get stuff to secure it, then get skills to supplement that. Leave the other stuff to the over anxious housewives who are to scared to obtain skills other than buying up suburbia.

[Bearman202]

I gotta agree with you. I buy in two categories. The first will keep me alive, the second will save me money later. Because there is no way of knowing when the S is gonna HTF, I try to do both. I'm in fairly good shape, with the exception of location, so I can do that. I'm looking for something affordable to move to, but I've got another year and a half left on a degree program that I'm committed to, so until then, I'm stuck. In the meantime, I pick up a bit of both categories. Like I said, I did the category 1 stuff first, because like you said, if you're not alive, the fact that you're saving money is gonna be kinda irrelevant. <G>

[protus]

over anxious housewives who are to scared to obtain skills other than buying up suburbia.

LOL. Well that puts a new twist to how some of the newer prep minded people act LOL

I think the reason you see so much of the "toothpaste/shampoo" examples is that those who take the label "prepper" seem to want to distance themselves from the stereotypical "survivalist" label. In order to do so they got to re name or say things different. To them, buying a case lot of right gaurd makes sense, as it is .50 cents cheaper per stick,,even though it cost 200$ a case lot. This is a rational purchase to them. However , if one was to say they just spent 200$ on rice ( or other LTS) many would balk and say that it is wasteful ,what do you plan to do with it in 15 yrs, and have a general view that it is not needed. Yet the right guard is.

Do you see the point there.

Most dont see money being saved as a prep. The new people to all of this do. Mostly because of the economy right now, and the self imposed need for money ( why do you think so many cling to PM's or money like barter items) come a societal collapse.
To be truly prepared you have to "think" outside the box and not be close minded. Even i look down on some of the piss poor attitudes many of these new people have. But that is the crux. They are new. Most folks on the web havent been preparing for very long. They may have only started in 05',-08'. This means you have a crop of people that are now undulated with info, good and both bad. With no clear person to lead them in the right direction. Not only in person but online. This is why i think so many do the "coffee" shop meet/greets on the other forums. It mostly so folks can exchange ideas, and brain work over them. However, does a football team full of freshmen that have never played before win? Very seldom. What happens when you drop a senior with 2 state champ rings in the mix. How do those freshmen react to him, and him likewise?
Back when i 1st started there was no web, no way to meet folks( that i knew of). It was me and 4 other freshmen.....i stayed at that level of preparedness for over 10 yrs....when i did try and move up, from 3rd string bench warmer to 2nd string i had no coach or senior to lead me.. so 5-7 more years went by. But i still prep'd. The web still wasnt what it was now. I found 2 main forums dedicated to preparing ( like this forum). From there i started hosting meets, i found a few seniors....i took and implemented there ideas, views into my preps. I made contacts and lost contacts along the way. This took time.
Time.
7 years later here i am. 10 times more prepared than what i was in 2003.
time. The new crop of folks, need to use it. If not they will fade.
I had a good talk with a new person the other day.
We talked about all of this. He even said that when he went online there was SO much info, he didnt know what way to go. Oh, he knew he needed a pack, some mre's and stuff. But he bought 4 different rucks ( 2 junk china made CTD ones , 2 old alice packs, and finally a well made civy ruck) ..it wasnt till we started talking he said that it put into perspective what he needed vs what he was seeing online. It wasnt soon after that he was asking to pack food, what water filter would be good for both his packs and for at home, what tent/shelter would work and even planted a small garden.
He agree'd 100% that with out someone having that person that has been around the block to lead/guide him he would have spent 4 times what he did.

Its hard for folks to meet that person.As right now i think out of 100 you'll meet maybe one that has been at it for more than 10 yrs, and well on their to way. the rest are just as lost or trying their best to self learn on their own( like many of us did back in the day )Sure you'll meet folks, who have a ton of preps, but like anything else, a fast car doesnt make a good driver...:p

[1Admin]

I guess I'm a mix of housewife and survivalist LOL ;)

No, I know what you mean.

Some don't follow a rational pattern in preparing and their purchasing. I've been guilty of that before also.

We do buy a lot of a standard use item if the price is right. Maybe late Spring last year, it was those new plastic cans of coffee, blue colored one, Maxwell house I think. On sale at StuffMart for $3. each. Strolled over to the coffee isle, same brand different flavor was $7. OK that's a deal. Cleared them out.

We use coffee everyday and it's kinda prep item. Either way, we aren't buying it at $8. and 9. a can now.

I wouldn't have done this however, if we didn't have "more than a little" real food to eat though.

I think therein lies the difference. "Prepping" isn't just about having a pile of excess stuff with no rhyme or reason to it.

Plan your purchases, have a notebook with "Needs" in there. However be flexible enough to not have to stay in exact order of purchase, etc.

For example- let's say Prepper X has in the first 20 items in his "needs" category the items "7.62x39 ammo, 3 cases" and "600 lbs. Hard Red Wheat."

Which purchase gets priority?

Well that depends on a lot of factors. First and foremost in my mind- what does he have NOW for both of these items? If he has 10K rounds of ammo and no wheat, then the choice is obvious, he needs to EAT!! And vice versa.

The problem comes up when the choice isn't as clear- let's say he has 300 lb. wheat per person in his family and 3K ammo for each rifle in that caliber?

That's where I think PRICE and AVAILABILITY comes into play. Let's say the ammo has been averaging $250. a case for a couple years and is now $150. a case. The wheat has been roughly the same price for years.

Changes the variables a little bit huh?

Availability- due to floods in Australia, bad grain harvests in Russia (Labor and food riots in Poland...LOL) , etc. wheat has went up in price and their is a 4 week backlog on LTS wheat.

Variables changed again didn't it?

How do you all do your planning when it comes to purchases? Do you rate everyday items as "prep" items like Matt was talking about? Or is it only considered a prep item if it's a deep storage type item?

How do your planning of purchases? Criteria?

[trkarl]

That's where I think PRICE and AVAILABILITY comes into play. Let's say the ammo has been averaging $250. a case for a couple years and is now $150. a case. The wheat has been roughly the same price for years.

Changes the variables a little bit huh?

Availability- due to floods in Australia, bad grain harvests in Russia (Labor and food riots in Poland...LOL) , etc. wheat has went up in price and their is a 4 week backlog on LTS wheat.

Variables changed again didn't it?

How do you all do your planning when it comes to purchases? Do you rate everyday items as "prep" items like Matt was talking about? Or is it only considered a prep item if it's a deep storage type item?

How do your planning of purchases? Criteria?

Very good points!!

[protus]

How do you all do your planning when it comes to purchases? Do you rate everyday items as "prep" items like Matt was talking about? Or is it only considered a prep item if it's a deep storage type item?

How do your planning of purchases? Criteria?

for us it is-

can and do we use it.
can we make it.
will this be hard to come by(event time)
is it on sale ( price vs use, vs amount etc)
priority- example- do i need a table top filter or do i need more food....in my case i'd lean towards the filter. if price is right the rest would go to food.

Im cheap so on sale is better for the most part.lol



i guess our main view is that do we need it, is it affordable, what can we do with it ( we wont buy a prep item if we cant use it/rotate it ).
.

[Patriot Prepper]

I started prepping over 30 years ago. We did not call ourselves preppers, we were survivalists. To prepare for TEOTWAWKI it is obvious that there needs to be a plan of priority when selecting items for storage. Shampoo may not be a priority, but then again it is cheap and if a few bucks are wasted, oh well. Now if they do that with every purchase and never get the essentials in place, they will be in a world of hurt.

One of my buddies who got me into prepping always buys 10 to 12 of everything, period. I once watched him buy 5 brand new Mercedes 500 SL convertibles because he got a deal. Then he flipped them and made a profit. He has everything he needs in essentials, but if he goes to a store to buy something he will still buy 10 of the item. It is nice to have unlimited funds. But for the rest of us, we must be smart and make purchases in a prioritized manner - concentrating first on essentials.

Sometimes, I think that new preppers do not always understand the magnitude of what they are facing and do not know the challenges involved with being ready for the worse case scenario. I think we need to have patience and mercy on them. God help them or they will perish.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

Awesome discussions with some good points! And perhaps I'm a teenie tiny bit harsh but I make up with it in my good looks LOL. Seriously I just wanted to make a point to prioritize and look at what you are doing.

[monkeybird]

Sometimes when reading what other's think are priorities I shake my head. I focus on food, water, safety. Fluff are not even in the picture. Believe me, if TEOTWAWKI happens, it won't matter how great you look!

Now for a controversy. Toilet paper. I have no 'stocked' toilet paper. I have read threads on other forums of people who have attic's full. I figure, it'll run out anyway, so other methods should be planned for.

How many think TP is a priority?

[Lowdown3]

Sometimes when reading what other's think are priorities I shake my head. I focus on food, water, safety. Fluff are not even in the picture. Believe me, if TEOTWAWKI happens, it won't matter how great you look!

Now for a controversy. Toilet paper. I have no 'stocked' toilet paper. I have read threads on other forums of people who have attic's full. I figure, it'll run out anyway, so other methods should be planned for.

How many think TP is a priority?

I always remember the clearing out Robert's Dad's gunshop scene in Red Dawn. They are all calling out stuff to each other to grab. "12 gauge, 308, lanterns, sleeping bags, batteries get all the batteries you can carry..."

One of the kids goes- "Toilet paper, I ain't gonna use no leaves.." LOL

We stock it, not as much as we should. I try to buy six months worth to keep in the house, but we probably don't have any more than that in deep storage.

Mental note- need more TP.

The problem is the storage of it- you have to keep it protected or rodents will tear it up, nest in it, etc.

[FireManEd]

So we should JUST survive and not live? Isn't good hygiene part of staying healthy which is in turn part of surviving? I supposed tooth paste is out also since you know how to pull that rotten tooth or have your buddy drill and fill it. Shouldn't the whole Prepping or survival stock piling be well rounded? And yes food comes first.

[Knobster]

Everyone has their priorities for what is needed. Water, food, security are all tops but in my case (wife is Type-1 Diabetic) then my 'List of lists' (hat tip to JWR) includes insulin, diabetic supplies and refrigeration.

[2682nscovell]

Sometimes when reading what other's think are priorities I shake my head. I focus on food, water, safety. Fluff are not even in the picture. Believe me, if TEOTWAWKI happens, it won't matter how great you look!

Now for a controversy. Toilet paper. I have no 'stocked' toilet paper. I have read threads on other forums of people who have attic's full. I figure, it'll run out anyway, so other methods should be planned for.

How many think TP is a priority?

I look at toilet paper the same way I look at all things like food, water, clothing, shelter, weapons, hygiene. Eventually everything you have is going to run out. Either by your own consumption, spoiling or theft. You might have to leave things behind, you may have a disaster within your disaster prep like rats, fire, flood or ZOMBIES, LOL. Anyways, the point is that a good survivalist needs to look at the big picture. Not at "what you have" but also "what to do without." You can spend years collecting toilet paper and then when you run out, you draw a blank in how to keep your butt clean. Collect tons of food but when it comes to laying a snare or gutting a dear; someone will just look at you like a moron. When your water runs out how do you collect more, but not only that... filter it and purify it? These kinds of thinking are important, probably more important than the collecting. But there is hope, any boy scout knows most of these techniques and you can learn them anyway. Just watch Alone In The Wilderness and that will floor you.

Think about this.
Included in your preparedness training, start studying methods of gathering and surviving without. Here are some interesting questions.

[610Alpha]

@FireManEd - there is a difference between hygiene and looking good for someone you will never meet type of mentality. There are lots of things that you can stock up that will take care of your teeth, dental floss is one, tooth paste is another. The point, I think, that Matt is trying to make is what are your priorities? Do you buy 10 bottles of Vidal Sassoon or do you buy a water filter. Its a mental exercise to get you to think about what is really important and frankly the brand name shampoo is not a necessity, having a way to get filter and store water is.

[Matt In Oklahoma]

So we should JUST survive and not live? Isn't good hygiene part of staying healthy which is in turn part of surviving? I supposed tooth paste is out also since you know how to pull that rotten tooth or have your buddy drill and fill it. Shouldn't the whole Prepping or survival stock piling be well rounded? And yes food comes first.

Toothpaste or a subsitute is needed to manage hygiene. Shampoo is not. Survive first then live, show me the survivalist who is so far ahead of the game that shampoo is actually on the list along with the ample water supply to use it. I am all about living, thats why we discuss things to combat boredom, coffee, chocolate etc. Knobster makes a good point too as everyones "needs" are different. Elittle's post is on target