To save or not to save...

[arcangel911]

This is a question that I have been pondering with in my head sometimes when I sleep and also when I drive. It was mentioned in another thread, but I am not a thread jacker. This is only a question and I would not like to start any problems, but I am coming for advice and guidance.

Depending on how the SHTF, I will likely bug out to a remote area of my pre-plan where my retreat is. The sad issue is that my family; father, mother, brother, and sister, aunt, uncle and cousin with possible future wife, live several hundred miles away. Sadly, all of them really aren't getting the idea that we are on a seriously potential collision course with destiny. I love them all dearly, but I don

[Tofu]

Arcangel:

You are asking a question that doesn't come with comfortable or easy answers. Like you I have been looking at my immediate family and what they would bring the island in the way of skills and ability, or would they be just a liability for my survival. So lets break your question down a little.

1. How will the TSHTF happen?
a. It happens quickly (immediate), think EMP. I've read some estimates of 50 to 80% mortality rate. By the time you actually got in gear to go rescue them they would probably already be dead.
b. It happens quickly (< 3 months), think Economic Collapse. People will continue their lives as normal for a short while (day or two) but things will quickly break down and out in the open is not where I plan to be. Again you may not reach them in time.
c. It happens slowly (6 months ~ 1 year), hyperinflation. The ultimate I told you so scenario. They will start looking to you for help, be ready to lead.

2. Look to history: Put yourself in Austria Pre-WWII and you are Jewish father of 10. You see the writing on the wall but the rest of your family thinks that it can't get that bad. You save who you can, and morn the ones you can't.

3. Prepare yourself first. When my father was dying of cancer I spent as much time with him as I could. But at the same time I started taking stock of my family and what life would be like after his passing. The family would need an emotional rock to anchor themselves to. They would need someone who could stand in the gap, make educated choices and be the voice of reason. After he passed I don't think I cried but a few times at the funeral. I had to set aside my grief, postpone it if you like, so that the rest of my family could pass through this valley. If you are unprepared mentally about the harsh reality that most of America refuses to aknowledge, then you're just going to be a basket case just like everyone else. But if you have war gamed it through, made your peace, and done what you could then you have no blood on your hands.

To thine own self be true...

Also check out Patriot Nurse on Youtube:

[Lowdown3]

I don't watch a lot of youtube videos cause most of them are crap, but I'd watch her again.

I appreciate the no BS, get it fixed now attitude.

I can't tell you how many times I've been jumped on forums when I mentioned that people should START WEANING themselves off of all the meds they "think" they have to have to live right now.

Eating right, staying very active (running/working out regularly) , making good nutrition choices are all good things to do whether you are planning for TS to HTF or not. However if you are planning for that, they are all the more important.

Your stock of Xantex will eventually run out. Learn to control your "stress" through good health, exercise and various ways to blowing off steam outside of pill popping.

[Mikeg175]

I have been in the same dilemma for the last few years myself . I have alienated a few family members and friends along the way ( good riddance ) . Most know that I am stocked and have been training and learning everything I can to keep my family afloat when SHTF . I am tired of the Oh you can afford to stockpile food/gear and ammo , we can't , I then ask how can they afford not to . They laugh and go "when the zombies come , we will head to your house and be fine " , I laugh and go ," I will consider you a zombie and put you out of your misery " and knowing me , they know I will keep my word . I have been told by a few people that I lack compassion and life isnt black and white , my reply to that , is that I am a realist and I believe in stats , and listening to the real news and to read between the lines . I do emergency work ( of sorts ) and I respond to 5-10 calls a week , where someone has lost their house , their possessions and sometimes someone's life or a loved pet and I do all in my power to help them with their losses , but when a woman jogs through Central Park in the middle of the night and gets attacked I feel nothing for her . If she is stupid enough to run in the wrong places at the wrong times , I am sorry , but I cant muster compassion for her , did she deserve it , NO , but I wont shed a tear or even a moments thoughts for her . I also used to do rescue work for dogs , I was the last person in the line to make the decision on whether they would be able to go back into society or whether they needed to be destroyed . That was a very tough situation , but I was able to do it , knowing that I was able to help a few dogs , have better lives and knowing that the dogs that had to be destroyed were actually better off anyways , if not they would have been caged for the next 10 yrs or so and let out into small areas's once a day and no animal deserves that . The sad part was most of the dogs were the way they were because of asshats destroying their lives .

I built my mother( 60 yrs old and works harder then anyone I know ) a Grand Cherokee with a lift kit , custom bumpers ( strong as heck ) , roof rack it will go anywhere with style and comfort ( it is fully loaded , leather sunroof , the works , V-8 ) and I let her know she is welcome to come to my house or my retreat ( when it is operational ) , the problem is she will want to bring my brother and sister and I wont allow that , so she will not come . I have offered my friends and family who aren't as well off that if they want to work on my retreat area and do hands on work and learn with me , I will pay for it all ( I'm not rich , but I can afford to help those , who want to help themselves ) . They wouldn't have to pay for anything , just do some manual labor , like cutting down trees clearing areas , and other chores around a budding operation and I have had only one friend who has been there with me for over 25 yrs and he is up for it . He helps me around my house and setting things up , knowing when my retreat area is finally legalized we have a ton of work to do and he will be right there helping me . I will not let anyone who knows what I am doing and not on board know the location of my retreat , I figure that will help my conscious when I either have to turn them away or put them down .

So in short you see what I feel about the questions you have , you have done your duty to your family and friends , but if they want to commit suicide slowly or fast , that is their decision . If they don't want to help contribute , they are detrimental to your family and friends that are trying . When you have a cancer , they cut it out , so do the same . I would let them know that you love them and will always cherish the memories , but when SHTF , you consider them dead all ready . Ask them to not show up , or if you have a retreat area , do not let them know where it is . It is an eye opener sometimes when instead of trying to convince/coerce them into believing what you do , that you simply look them in the eye and say something along the lines " I love you dearly , I will miss you and blah ( insert names ) , but do not show up when SHTF , you are welcome for Xmas , the 4th , but when it gets ugly , you will not be welcome " and let it go at that point . If they can't accept that , move along and try to surround yourself with others who do accept and will contribute . You need to make sure they understand that you love them , but if they arent with you from the beginning they wont be there at the end .

[WiseOwl]

Good video. It is very sobering but leaving folks behind will happen. My mom has a ton of medical issues, ( I got here a bottle of Monavie for Christmas to try and get her off some of the meds) and she has told me, she knows she cant bug out, she knows she will go first without her insulin and meds, she just wants me to keep the bloodline strong and keep my family safe. She understand the scenario and prays it doesnt happen. But she knows I will survive and that it what would make her happy as she passes....

[rockriver]

a great post..
and a couple of examples..
on another website i posted a question about have you made preps for your elderly relatives that you cared about.
i commented that some may be in an assisted living home. it was an honest question about a real life situation i had.
--
a popular member of the website suggested two bullets to the back of the head for those in the assisted living home.
--
here's the rest of the story. one of those relatives recovered from their injury and is back in their home, and would be a tremendous
asset to a group as a spiritual rock and prayer warrior, gardener, cook, educated, wise lady who came up in a depressed area and knows how to
live and take care of things "without the comforts."
the other had a serious disease. his mind was sharp one day and not sharp the next. he still gardened and ran a roto tiller. he has since passed to Glory saluting (not a good crisp salute- i believe he was saluting the King - as he entered before the throne) he would have been a "drain on labor resources" but on a good mind day the military officer and engineer would have been a positive asset.
bottom line for me...
i loved, respected and cared for them regardless of condition... i would have taken /will take great risk to go get them. now it is just her.
hopefully, we will have enough warning, that i can tell her to start driving, and i'll meet her half way as she is hours away.
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and for the popular guy at the other web site who proposed executing them, he ain't welcome.. i know of his inner thoughts and his heart..
he would be a danger to me and mine.
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another example: a relatives family are great Christians who have served in very bad circumstances in deprived areas.. he and family lived off beans and rice. when they returned to the u.s. he had a mindset of not needing to work. that God would provide.
my decision.. they were family... they would be welcome BUT, encouraged to work and earn their living. if the work ethic wasn't there, the children would be allowed to stay. the non workers would be "encouraged" to leave...
the good news... he is now working and his views are changing rapidly... a miracle... i'm giving him patriots by rawles for Christmas.
they live a thousand miles away. chances/reality of me going after them aren't realistic.
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a third example..
a relative and wife also live a 1000 miles away... one is medical... one is military and engineer... both are used to living in the tough..
i do prep for them. i would take high risk to go get them or help them get here.
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a fourth example..
a set of close relatives live across the big water. i'm not a pilot. i don't have a yacht. i could not go get them. regardless of their skill set, heart set, or anything else, i wish them well. but nothing i can do. they both think i'm off base in being concerned.. i do not prep for them.. if the huge miracle happened and they got here.. i wouldn't turn them away as long as they had a heart changing event and got their hearts, minds, and actions, emphasis on actions on track, they could stay.. that would be another miracle!
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something for all of us to consider...
i have.. i do..
excellent question.

[Klayton]

wow you guys made some great comments in this post!!

I actually have already subscribed to patriot nurse on youtube, she has several nice videos, to include one on which antibiotics to stockpile and why...

As for who gets to "come-in" Unfortunately I am not rich, so my supplies are restricted currently only to immediate family... In a few years my stockpile may grow large enough to include a good and well deserving couple (friends obviously)... I look at it this way, when SHTF, do I want my family to be the only ones that survive in our area? heck no, one day my 2 year old will need a partner of the opposite sex to continue on with life... But that being said, I will be very cautious on who I accept (when I can) into our fold... I will not say they have to have a great tradeskill, but one thing they will have to have THE WILL TO SURVIVE & HELP!! They could be mere assistants for guard duty and friendly conversationalists... But they will pull their weight somehow!

Well, thats is how I see it now. Not rich, so family comes first, eventually I will have enough to have for non-preparers that will add to our family's existence... :)

[Matt In Oklahoma]

I think you need to pray, discuss, and continue to prepare. There is no easy answer on this. The answer you come up with may change as events unfold as well. Be flexible and prepare your mind for things too.

[biathlon]

You're not the only one faced with this sort of dillema. Even living with me and watching as I prepare she continues to put all her $$ into the wall street machine and buy housing improvments. She believes I have "An interesting hobby".

I have no intention of assisting anyone other than my 6 year old son. The rest are gonna die while we are so far up in the "outback" we won't be seen or heard from for however long it takes for some sort of society to rebuild itself. Making it through the transition from the initial chaos to the aftermath of whatever is going to happen is the key. The first few weeks and then months are gonna be real scary. Good luck.

[rhinoaa]

We all have circumstances that we will have to deal with. We live in the country on a dead end road (too close to the city) that ends on a large recreational lake. The only traffic comming our way is people going to the lake or going to a beer joint made infamous by John Grisham. So, the whole family is likely to come to our farm because there is nowhere else to go.

Our basic situation is (I think) above average for a newbie. On 25 total acres (just bought another 10 acres 300 feet down the road with a house and 10,000 gallon propane tank that is half full) and since the in laws are going to live there, we have two houses for people to crash. The main push is food stores and, trying to make provisions for as many as 20 people (that is if everyone showed up) is daunting to say the least.

Why prepare for them? First, when the Crunch occurs, will need extra people for OPSEC (there is just the two of us). Second, many of them bring a unique set of skills that will be invalueable in a PAW setting (mechanic, carpenter, experienced hunter, cook, gardener, teacher, ect). Wife and I are both Advanced Practice Nurses and can handle medical. And third, as Christians, if we cannot extend charity to family, then who can we extend it to.

All we can do is prepare the best we can and pray that it is enough.